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Post by garyzaboly on May 25, 2009 15:44:54 GMT -5
Duck "capes" and "overcoats" imply cavalry and officers' use rather than foot soldiers. You can see such items in THE BATTLE OF TAMPICO and in at least one Linati print. The infantry were generally issued greatcoats, if they were lucky. Otherwise they had to make do; some no doubt had ponchos. Others, such as the luckless soldado guards observed in Texas in 1835, protected themselves from the rain by holding their blankets on bayonetted muskets over their heads. The return for the army dated June 30, at Matamoros, lists both cloaks "of coarse cloth" and capes "of duck." The cloaks were issued to the infantry (there is only a token listing of 20 in the cavalry, and those were for the Cuautta detachment). The duck capes were issued to the cavalry. The infantry return also shows overcoats on hand in very large numbers.
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Post by garyzaboly on May 25, 2009 15:51:44 GMT -5
De la Pena's published narrative notes "capes" issued to the infantry before the campaign, but I suspect these are ponchos. The "cloaks" are problematic. Since there is an account of some Mexican infantry using cloaks, and others at the very same time using blankets, as protective items against the rain, one wonders if the cloaks were issued to permanentes or elite troops only. Just something to ponder.
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Post by marklemon on May 25, 2009 17:08:49 GMT -5
In the June 30, 1836 return, every infantry battalion, both militia and permanent, had been issued cloaks, with the exception of two: the Yucatan detachment, and the San Luis Potosi battalion.
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fede
Full Member
Posts: 19
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Post by fede on Jun 14, 2009 5:33:56 GMT -5
A question: did the Zapadores wear bearskins or only shakos ?In European armies the sappers usually had bearskins alongside shakos with the appropriate insignia....
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Post by stuart on Jun 14, 2009 8:31:06 GMT -5
Ah, a common mistake. The Zapadores were an assault unit, quite unconnected with the Sapeurs/Pioneers (I forget the term used in the Mexican Army) integral to line infantry units.
The use of bearskins by the Mexican Army is an interesting question. There is an illustration from a drill-book reproduced in Chartrand's book (Osprey) which shows a Spanish-style bearksin with the flat "bag" lying down the back, but how common this actually was I wouldn't like to guess.
There is on the other hand a body of cavalry in the background of the battle of Tampico painting (c1835) wearing grenadier style bearskins. These were interpreted in Philip Haythornthwaite's book on the Alamo and Texas Revolution (Osprey) as mounted pioneers, but there are far too many of them. My own take is that they are the elite company of the Cuautla. The Mexican Army was patterned in a lot of ways after the French one and in that service during the Napoleonic Wars it was common for the elite companies of Dragoon regiments to wear bearskin caps (and often sport beards as well); a reminder of their origin as mounted infantry and so, notionally at least, including a grenadier company. As Mexican regular cavalry were designated as Dragoons I reckon, on the strength of this painting that they assumed the old dragoon tradition of designating the elite company as grenadiers and if the colonel could afford it giving them fur grenadier caps
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Post by stuart on Jun 14, 2009 8:32:31 GMT -5
Returning to the question, there's no reason to suppose the Zapadores Battalon didn't wear chacos/shakos.
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Post by Kevin Young on Jun 14, 2009 13:00:15 GMT -5
Ah, a common mistake. The Zapadores were an assault unit, quite unconnected with the Sapeurs/Pioneers (I forget the term used in the Mexican Army) integral to line infantry units. The use of bearskins by the Mexican Army is an interesting question. There is an illustration from a drill-book reproduced in Chartrand's book (Osprey) which shows a Spanish-style bearksin with the flat "bag" lying down the back, but how common this actually was I wouldn't like to guess. There is on the other hand a body of cavalry in the background of the battle of Tampico painting (c1835) wearing grenadier style bearskins. These were interpreted in Philip Haythornthwaite's book on the Alamo and Texas Revolution (Osprey) as mounted pioneers, but there are far too many of them. My own take is that they are the elite company of the Cuautla. The Mexican Army was patterned in a lot of ways after the French one and in that service during the Napoleonic Wars it was common for the elite companies of Dragoon regiments to wear bearskin caps (and often sport beards as well); a reminder of their origin as mounted infantry and so, notionally at least, including a grenadier company. As Mexican regular cavalry were designated as Dragoons I reckon, on the strength of this painting that they assumed the old dragoon tradition of designating the elite company as grenadiers and if the colonel could afford it giving them fur grenadier caps I think the term we are searching for is gastadores. This is an interesting idea on the bearskin hat folks in the Tampico painting: I think that the old CMH print of the 1836 Mexican Army also has them as mounted pioneers. I tend to agree with you that the Zapadores would have been in, as a general rule, in shakos, with possibly some personal hatgear worn by officers.
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Post by stuart on Jun 14, 2009 14:31:27 GMT -5
I think the term we are searching for is gastadores. That's the word I was looking for This is an interesting idea on the bearskin hat folks in the Tampico painting: I think that the old CMH print of the 1836 Mexican Army also has them as mounted pioneers. Haythornthwaite probably just followed the CMH print, but for the reasons I've given I reckon that they are indeed the elite company
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Post by martinvasquez on Jun 23, 2009 14:10:18 GMT -5
Chartrand and others have assumed that the body of cavalry(to the left of Santa Anna and his staff) in the Tampico painting are wearing bearskins but recently I received a very detailed copy of the painting and after examination it appears the cavalry are wearing Dragoon helmets with black covers over them. This detailed version also shows the red jacketed soldado standing in front of the drum, but his facings are green not blue. Could he be cavalry? There is also on the far right a soldado leaned over to the right wearing green chords on his shako!(Cazadore?) One other neat thing about this copy is it shows a small boat on the shore with a small cannon on board, only problem is you cant see much since they look like they are just gray shaded with no detail to see. Martin Vasquez
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Post by TRK on Jun 23, 2009 14:36:35 GMT -5
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Post by martinvasquez on Jun 23, 2009 14:52:03 GMT -5
Hey Phil, Thank you for the links, although I was unable to open the first one but the second one was very interesting. I had never seen an actual unit designated for any figures in the painting, something to research! Martin Vasquez
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Post by martinvasquez on Jun 23, 2009 14:56:46 GMT -5
TRK,Please let me apologize for calling you Phil, I thought you were Phil Graf who is also on this board. Best regards Martin Vasquez
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Post by TRK on Jun 23, 2009 15:17:24 GMT -5
Martin, no apology necessary!
I just checked the links I posted, and both worked for me. You might try doing a Google search for the terms "Santa Anna" Tampico 1829 INAH; the link should be the first hit.
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Post by martinvasquez on Jun 23, 2009 17:00:06 GMT -5
I went to a different computer and I was able to access the first link, fantastic to have the painting diagramed with so many details although the photo of the painting is smaller and not as detailed as my copy. On the left side there is another mounted Sapper next to the one shown. Also if you look in between the Jacale and the mounted cavalry officer there is a body of troops who appear to be wearing capes but were not listed in the diagram. Thanks again for posting it! Martin Vasquez
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Post by Kevin Young on Jun 23, 2009 21:57:26 GMT -5
Very interesting observations all. The painting still has much to show us as we get a better look at it. I think the point about the dragoon helments is a very interesting one.
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