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Post by loucapitano on May 4, 2011 16:03:39 GMT -5
Thanks Kevin, the site was very illuminating. It sure looks like Linati was the guide for Wayne's Mexican costumes. Perhaps some of the 1825 uniforms were still worn in 1836 by some of the troops conscripted from the various Mexican states. Then again, Santa Anna was known as a stickler for uniforms as evidenced by his battle orders of March 5th i.e. caps with chin straps, troops with shoes, polished bayonettes etc.
Wayne apparently tried for historical accuracy in some things like the shape of the fort and the Mexican uniforms that were known in 1960. It's too bad his vision got so muddled in irrelevancies that he missed the true drama and pathos of the siege. His biographers say he did not think his audience would insist on historical accuracy, so he went for action and shmaltz. He certainly put enough money into it. But that's Hollywood. It did have one hell of a rousing finale that I enjoy seeing over and over (to my wife's dismay.)
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Post by Kevin Young on May 4, 2011 18:33:51 GMT -5
Anything is possible, but still think the "newer" uniforms would have been the majority in use (and of course the whites). The problem is that Wayne's costume folks were looking for "a look" and not accuracy. Then again, they were probably already in or getting ready to be in pre-production mode when Hefter's El Soldado Mexicano came out in 1958. By the way, a German artist had done a series on uniforms in America in the late 19th century and used the Linati prints as well.
You can see "the look" concept on the Texan costuming as well...very little is period to 1836 ( a couple of coats and hats do make the grade). The "uniforms" for the Texan regulars are based off Mexican War uniforms and to some degree 1850's shell jackets.
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Post by loucapitano on May 5, 2011 18:30:29 GMT -5
Thanks Kevin - that settles the uniform issue. How about this: Many of the earlier illustrations of the Alamo, those made between 1960 and 1980 show four four-pounders defending the South wall stockade. These include authors Jeff Long, Albert Nofi, and Michael Lind. More recently, artists and authors like George Nelson, Stephen Harrigan and Stephen Hardin show the abatis defended by a single 12-pounder. The 2004 Alamo movie showed a 12 pounder while Wayne seemed to have multiple cannons further back behind the riflemen. Is anyone familiar with why this change was made? What did more recent scholarship about the Alamo's artillary tell about the size and placement of the cannons? Lou - just being curious.
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Post by sharpegeorge on Jun 7, 2011 21:37:17 GMT -5
Anybody know the names of the actors who converse with Bowie after the reinforcements from goliad arrive at the alamo
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Post by Kevin Young on Jun 12, 2011 11:06:26 GMT -5
You mean the scene in the director's cut where the men from Gonzales arrive?
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Post by loucapitano on Jun 12, 2011 11:47:51 GMT -5
The scene in the Director's Cut featured the man who played the Alcalde of San Antonio that Travis insults in front of the garrision and Flacca introduces to Crocket. He lead the 32 Gonzales men into the fort, but I don't remember his name. I'm sure you guys do.
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Post by Kevin Young on Jun 12, 2011 15:02:50 GMT -5
The scene in the Director's Cut featured the man who played the Alcalde of San Antonio that Travis insults in front of the garrision and Flacca introduces to Crocket. He lead the 32 Gonzales men into the fort, but I don't remember his name. I'm sure you guys do. The character is Juan Seguin (completly out of historical context) played by veteran actor Joseph Calleia who had work in such films as Jungle Book, For Whom the Bell Tolls, The Iron Mistress, Juarez, and Touch of Evil. The Alamo was his next to last film performance.
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Post by sharpegeorge on Jun 15, 2011 19:00:43 GMT -5
No, not Seguin. Bowie talks to 2 white men, and it appears that he has known them for a while.
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Post by Kevin Young on Jun 15, 2011 20:38:27 GMT -5
Ok--one is suppose to be George Kimball (Refered to as George). The second has been id as "Hap" and according to those devotees of the film, that character was originally suppose to be played by Happy Shahan, owner of the Shahan Ranch where the filming was done. The character was thus named Hap (Widmark greets him as such) but when the scene was shot on the spur of a moment in the schuedule, Shahan was not there and one of the extras Marshall Jones was used (I believe he had been one of the stand ins for Wayne and he shows up in a couple of more scenes, including when Houston arrives...Richard C. would know all the details... the folks over at the John Wayne-The Alamo fourm have discussed this is some length- www.johnwayne-thealamo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=66&p=23748&hilit=hap#p23748
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Post by sharpegeorge on Jun 15, 2011 21:07:23 GMT -5
thanks
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jun 15, 2011 23:06:18 GMT -5
Well, I tried to find something on "George" but I cannot locate a bit player name for him. Kevin is right on Marshal Jones playing the other guy, but I believe the myth of him being named "Hap" after Happy Shahan is not a reality. The dialogue continuity for the movie has the character name listed as "Half" and that is what I hear Widmark saying in the scene. There was however another "Hap" in the movie. John Henry Daniels played the little black boy who goes out with Mrs. Dickinson and Lisa at the end. In the screenplay, there is dialogue between him and Aissa Wayne and he is called "Happy." In various cast lists, he is referred to as "Happy Sam." Can't have two Happy's in one movie. It's not cricket.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Jun 17, 2011 23:30:01 GMT -5
And he was anything but happy during his tenure in the Alamo! Probably happy to get out alive, but he sure wasn't smiling.
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Post by loucapitano on Jun 20, 2011 17:15:39 GMT -5
Kevin, Thanks for the Link to the John Wayne - The Alamo Forum. Very informative, but there does not seem to be any way to become a member or Log In. Is it closed or restricted? Please help. Lou Capitano
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Post by Bill Yowell on Jun 20, 2011 21:08:20 GMT -5
I thought it was just me and my less than adequate computer skills. I too could not figure out how to register for the John Wayne Alamo Forum. I would like to do so if someone could clue me in. Thanks in advance.
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Post by Seguin on Jun 21, 2011 0:03:15 GMT -5
Just go to the home page of the forum. www.johnwayne-thealamo.com/forumscroll to the bottom of the page and click on the register button and follow the instructions. I hope that solves the problem.
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