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Post by mjbrathwaite on Apr 11, 2011 18:17:20 GMT -5
I think you're right about John Wayne wanting to get John Ford out of his hair. That's my understanding of the situation from what I've heard and read. Ford claimed to have directed "some wonderful scenes" that were all cut out, but he still called the finished film "the greatest picture I've ever seen", probably in the hope that his endorsement would help it at the box office rather than because he actually thought that. I'm not sure I would call it that, but, despite its inaccuracies, it would probably be in my top 20 - especially the "director's cut". In my later years, I find something strangely reassuring about John Wayne, especially in his films from the mid Fifties on, and now gain a lot more pleasure from his films of the 1970s than I did at the time.
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Post by Phil Riordan on Apr 17, 2011 14:45:23 GMT -5
Some time ago, I spent an afternoon researching 1960 newspaper ads and articles on John Wayne's "The Alamo" on microfilm in the Chicago Public Library. I was surprised to find an article published around the time the filming had begun. It appeared to be a press release put out by United Artists, announcing that director John Ford was heading to Brackettville to help with production. I wish I still had the printout of this article, because in retrospect it seemed to suggest that John Ford's involvement was part of John Wayne's deal with United Artists.
We've always been told that Wayne was unpleasantly surprised when John Ford showed up on the set, giving orders. It makes more sense to me that Ford was part of the deal, given Ford's attitude. Would he otherwise intrude on his friend's project? It also makes sense to me that United Artists would protect its investment by hiring a veteran director as advisor. By the looks of many still photographs taken on the set at the time, Ford is pretty involved. There are even shots of him looking at concept (promotional?) artwork.
Again, the article to which I refer was but a paragraph in one of the Chicago newspapers, published around the time "The Alamo" started filming. I'm sorry I can't quote it directly.
Phil Riordan
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Post by Jim Boylston on Apr 17, 2011 17:19:37 GMT -5
Here's an article from the Springfield Union, from July 21, 1959. The first paragraph of Hedda Hopper's column would indicate that Ford was more involved than just popping in. Attachments:
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Post by Jim Boylston on Apr 17, 2011 17:25:41 GMT -5
Dallas Morning News, May 8, 1959. This article is fairly specific that Wayne hired Ford to direct scenes in which he appeared. JW might have found Ford's presence irritating, but it certainly wasn't a surprise to him. Jim Attachments:
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Post by mjbrathwaite on Apr 17, 2011 18:31:49 GMT -5
The plot certainly thickens on this one! I downloaded "John Ford and the Alamo", but when I tried to open the file, I got a message saying the file was damaged and could not be repaired, but the Dallas Morning News article, although vague, suggests that John Ford's involvement was more official than we've been led to believe. Perhaps it was felt that he was too important a director to be assigned a second unit director's credit and thus remained a silent partner. The film's souvenir program doesn't list him in the credits, but has a picture of him on the set with John Wayne. The caption reads, "John Ford, the Academy Award winning director, consults with John Wayne, during the filming of The Alamo." Alan Eyles, in "John Wayne and the Movies", says "John Ford came down to work on the film directing a second unit", without any suggestion that he was an unwelcome visitor. I've never looked closely into that aspect of the film before and, on reflection, I think I might have got the impression that Ford wasn't especially welcome primarily from "The Making of the Alamo" on TCM.
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Post by Paul Sylvain on Apr 17, 2011 18:32:07 GMT -5
That's always been my understanding, too, Jim. I recall seeing or hearing that at some point in the past, but yes. Ford didn't crash anyone's party. His assistance in some parts of the film was sought by Wayne.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Apr 17, 2011 20:01:39 GMT -5
Had Wayne simply hired Ford to direct the film it would have been a lot better (frankly, it had nowhere to go but up). Wayne did not know how to direct at all and immediately got into conflicts with some of his actors, who thought he wanted them to play their roles the way Wayne would, giving us a collection of John Wayne impersonators. The film also needed a new script; Grant's is awful and, at times, embarrassing.
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Post by Paul Sylvain on Apr 18, 2011 4:53:48 GMT -5
Hmmmm, whose idea was it to have a birthday party in the middle of the siege? That scene has always left me scratching my head.
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Post by Jim Boylston on Apr 18, 2011 6:39:41 GMT -5
The Springfield Union article is opening okay for me. Anyone else having a problem with it?
Jim
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Post by Allen Wiener on Apr 18, 2011 8:19:58 GMT -5
It opened OK for me.
The awful birthday party scene was entirely Wayne's idea; he wanted to give his daughter the spotlight. As if the film didn't lumber along long enough as is.
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Post by Chuck T on Apr 18, 2011 9:13:29 GMT -5
I am afraid that I must disagree somewhat with my friend Allen on Grant. Grant wrote a paperback novel in conjunction with the release of the Alamo. I purchased the novel before I saw the film and was impressed by the writing style and content. When I saw the film a few weeks later I could not believe that the same man who wrote the novel also wrote the screenplay. They were like night and day. This leads me to believe that the "smaltz effect" of the movie was 100% Wayne. Wayne was making political points in the movie where little if any were present in the novel.
Ford was in his twilight. He only made I believe three movies after the Alamo. Of the three Liberty Valance was the best. Sergeant Rutledge was one of my favorites, but not a critical success. The third Cheyanne Autumn was notable only for Widmark's performance in my mind. Had Ford directed the whole thing I believe he could have coaxed the Cheyanne Autumn/Two Road Together performance out of Widmark and the Alamo would have been at least 50% better than it was.
Despite Ford, as long as the screen play held together, no one could have made that sow's ear into a silk purse.
PS: I think that the major problem with all of the Alamo films, and seige films in general (Beau Geste notwithstanding) is that they are about a seige. They usually start out well setting the stage, they lag in the middle (where they tend to make up things to keep the flow of action) and then end with a very exciting conclusion. No one has yet(again with the exception of Beau Geste) has been able to solve this problem. This reflects reality. Seiges are boring. Boring does not make good box office.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Apr 18, 2011 9:56:26 GMT -5
I never saw the Grant novel; I only saw the Steve Frazee paperback novel that was tied in with the film's release. It had little cameo photos of the 3 stars on the cover with a battle scene in the background. The novel was excellent, fast paced and did a far better job of establishing characters and getting the reader to care about them. It had absolutely no resemblance to the movie script.
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Post by Chuck T on Apr 18, 2011 10:11:51 GMT -5
Allen: You are absolutely correct. I am very mistaken it was Steve Frazee. I just got my crumbling copy out of the top drawer of my chest of drawers where I have kept it for 50 years. I guess my amazement was something on the order of is this the same story, not the same writer. My apologies.
PS: I suppose it was the credit Grant gets as screenplay author/associate producer on one of the title pages of the book that led to my confusion. Evidently the book was re-released in 2002 and is available on the secondary market.
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Post by Kevin Young on Apr 18, 2011 12:40:49 GMT -5
Frank Thompson, author of Alamo Movies, indicated that the Frazee novel was written before the Wayne film was made, but was purchased as the offical "movie" book. Lon Tinkle's 13 Days To Glory (Tinkle worked briefly as a historical advistor but lhad his name removed because of the historical errors) was also released in paperback as "The Alamo" with a photo plug on the back for the Wayne film. A British version had a cover tied into the Wayne film.
John Farkis id 23 scenes in the Wayne that may have been directed by Ford. These include many scenes that made it into the current version or the directors cut.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Apr 18, 2011 14:02:21 GMT -5
Rudy Robbins clearly stated that Ford directed his death scene, for one.
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