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Post by TRK on Sept 14, 2008 8:31:53 GMT -5
Did anybody happen to catch the Hallmark Channel's "presentation" of The Alamo last night? I was flipping channels and stumbled onto it at the point where the Mexican army is entering San Antonio and delivering Santa Anna's' ultimatum to the Texans. After Travis lit off the cannon with his cigar, the scene jumped to the nighttime scene where Bowie receives news that his wife is dead. In other words, in one fell swoop, Hallmark cut 21 minutes out of the movie! I flipped the thing off after that scene-jump, but for anybody who was seeing this movie for the first time, it must have been a totally incomprehensible mess.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Sept 14, 2008 9:09:05 GMT -5
It's really self-destructive to watch films on commercial television anymore because something like this always happens, but this sounds like the worst hatchet job I've ever heard of. I was spared this experience because in order to get Hallmark I'd have to pay even more to Comcast than I do now.
In one way or another, with the exception of Turner Classic Movies, television has hacked up this film since it first appeared on TV. The two VHS releases were complete, with the following note: The first VHS edition was not in full widescreen mode, but was complete and included the Huberman documentary on the making of the movie. The second "Director's Cut" VHS edition was in full widescreen format, but lacked the documentary. The only DVD release to date has the hacked up version, with several scenes from the original release missing, but does have the Huberman film.
If you can't find a copy of one of the VHS editions, your best bet is to wait for TCM's next airing of the film and dub yourself a copy. I keep hoping that there will be a quality, 2-disc, restored edition issued on DVD one of these days, but those hopes are really fading. Maybe in 2010 for the 50th anniversary???
AW
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Post by billchemerka on Sept 14, 2008 9:46:42 GMT -5
It's really self-destructive to watch films on commercial television anymore because something like this always happens, but this sounds like the worst hatchet job I've ever heard of. I was spared this experience because in order to get Hallmark I'd have to pay even more to Comcast than I do now. In one way or another, with the exception of Turner Classic Movies, television has hacked up this film since it first appeared on TV. The two VHS releases were complete, with the following note: The first VHS edition was not in full widescreen mode, but was complete and included the Huberman documentary on the making of the movie. The second "Director's Cut" VHS edition was in full widescreen format, but lacked the documentary. The only DVD release to date has the hacked up version, with several scenes from the original release missing, but does have the Huberman film. If you can't find a copy of one of the VHS editions, your best bet is to wait for TCM's next airing of the film and dub yourself a copy. I keep hoping that there will be a quality, 2-disc, restored edition issued on DVD one of these days, but those hopes are really fading. Maybe in 2010 for the 50th anniversary??? AW Wayne Enterprises is currently keeping a tally on those who want a "director's cut" of Duke's classic. Info is in the new issue of The Alamo Journal.
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Post by TRK on Sept 14, 2008 16:55:06 GMT -5
If you can't find a copy of one of the VHS editions, your best bet is to wait for TCM's next airing of the film and dub yourself a copy. I have the VHS with the deleted scenes and the DVD without them, and also a Beta version that's about as useful now as an Edison cylinder recording And, following up on Bill's post, I'd gladly shell out $$ for yet another iteration of the movie on DVD if it were a deluxe edition with true wide screen, restored deleted scenes and sound, and extras (to include "Spirit of the Alamo"). The only reason it cheeses me off that Hallmark hacked the film to pieces is that unsuspecting viewers no doubt saw the film for the first time and came away with the conclusion that the movie is a nonsensical, screwed-up mess. The movie already has enough issues without adding undeserved bad karma to it
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Post by Allen Wiener on Sept 14, 2008 18:44:27 GMT -5
What's somewhat ironic is that many people thought the film suffered due to its original length and they believed it would benefit by deleting those scenes. I think, despite its flaws, it's a BETTER film with the deleted scenes restored.
It's too bad that, unlike many other art forms, films are merrily hacked to pieces without anyone thinking they've done the work any harm, as if they hadn't tampered with the artist's work. For better or worse, the complete film is what John Wayne created and released and that's the way the film ought to be seen. Whenever I have the time or inclination to actually watch the film, I will only put on the uncut VHS edition, although I am prone to take a break or two. Nonetheless, I have to acknowledge that film is a different sort of medium or art form than many others. It is edited as part of the creative process. Apparently Orson Welles' "Touch of Evil" was taken away from Welles during the editing stage and some hack made a mess of it. Only recently did someone find Welles' original notes on how to fix the film, after he'd seen what they'd done to his film, and issued a restored version. I still marvel at that very long opening, which is one continuous shot with the camera almost constantly in motion. Amazing. The studio put the titles over that shot, which distracted from it; the new version took the titles out, so you can see it as it was meant to be seen.
In a similar way, Wayne was responsible for the initial cutting up of his film. IIRC, the scenes were deleted, along with the oveture, intermission and exit music to shorten the running time and increase the number of showings per day in each theater. This would increase revenues, as Duke tried to recover his costs. Wayne himself must have approved the cuts, although I doubt he was happy doing it.
I agree with you on what a deluxe edition ought to include; the complete film in full widescreen and both "Spirit of the Alamo" and the Huberman film (I've heard there's a longer version of this, but I'm not sure; if so, that's the version they should include). It would also be nice to add a documentary about the real Alamo story, perhaps one of the History Channel efforts or something entirely new, which of course would increase the costs of producing such a package.
AW
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Post by Paul Sylvain on Sept 16, 2008 6:43:11 GMT -5
For all its flaws, historical or otherwise, Wayne's Alamo is pretty darn good story-telling and a heck of a movie. Not to be forgotten is that we've learned a lot more about the actual event in the 40-something years since Wayne released this movie. Still, I love to plug this flick in and watch it.
But, you guys are right about commercial television and channels other than TCM and AMC. I can't stand to see movies chopped and hacked to bits. I have a VHS and DVD of the Alamo. Both seem to be complete, but now I'll have to check them out when I get back from my work detail in Texas and see for sure. I guess I was unaware of the different versions.
Man, I would have turned the channel, too, if I'd have seen the Hallmark abortion.
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Post by tmdreb on Sept 16, 2008 21:14:30 GMT -5
I've learned that watching movies on tv really isn't worth the time. They're so chopped up and messed with that it's more frustrating than anything.
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Post by stuart on Sept 17, 2008 1:18:50 GMT -5
For all its flaws, historical or otherwise, Wayne's Alamo is pretty darn good story-telling and a heck of a movie. Not to be forgotten is that we've learned a lot more about the actual event in the 40-something years since Wayne released this movie. Still, I love to plug this flick in and watch it. Yeah, well the point is that it was made as a movie, as patriotic entertainment, not as a documentary. I understand that James Grant (the writer) was so annoyed by historians trying to influence this and other films that he deliberately went out of his way to write good fiction rather than dramatised history. Look at the 2004 film. Its possible to criticise some of the ways in which it was put together but all the really loud criticism came from people complaining that this fact had been bent or compressed here or something ommitted there, let alone the "outrage" over the execution scene. While I don't know how far I agree with it I can certainly see Grant's point of view
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Post by Paul Sylvain on Sept 17, 2008 4:17:18 GMT -5
Yeah, well the point is that it was made as a movie, as patriotic entertainment, not as a documentary. And darned good entertainment both films are. I don't know about you, but even though I know how the story ends -- or at least the battle -- I still hope to see the Texians win, just once. I never get tire of watching these movies. I have never visited or seen the set from the 2004 movie (and from what I read and hear, it is crumbling pretty quickly), but I did get out to Alamo Village back in early 1995. It seemed strange to see and walk around the Wayne Alamo, because I had seen the movie so many times and was so familiar with it. Now, only if something more representative of the real compound could be done in downtown San Antonio.
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Post by Wade Dillon on Sept 18, 2008 11:19:08 GMT -5
After watching both the 1960 and 2004 film on cable, I refuse to ever do so again. Too many commercial breaks for the '04 film and Wayne's was way too choppy!
I will stick with my dvds!
~Wade
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Post by TRK on Sept 18, 2008 14:19:08 GMT -5
I'm with you, Wade. I watch TV about twenty minutes a day, if that, and feel like a chump every time I write the check for the cable company.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Sept 24, 2008 3:32:34 GMT -5
After watching both the 1960 and 2004 film on cable, I refuse to ever do so again. Too many commercial breaks for the '04 film and Wayne's was way too choppy! I will stick with my dvds! ~Wade "Theater is life. Film is art. Television is furniture." -- Ancient Chinese Proverb.
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Post by sloanrodgers on Sept 28, 2008 15:45:18 GMT -5
After watching both the 1960 and 2004 film on cable, I refuse to ever do so again. Too many commercial breaks for the '04 film and Wayne's was way too choppy! I will stick with my dvds! ~Wade "Theater is life. Film is art. Television is furniture." -- Ancient Chinese Proverb. Ha! Now that's anachronistically funny, but true. I think I've even seen some old lacquerwork and scrolls, where Confucius is sitting on his boob tube. ;D
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Post by Paul Sylvain on Oct 13, 2008 6:53:25 GMT -5
I hardly watch the tube. My wife often has it on while I'm working on something, and I'll occasionally look up, give it a glance, then go back to what I'm doing. The stuff I prefer to watch rarely gets air time on the family tube, so I ignore it.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Oct 13, 2008 8:06:11 GMT -5
On the other hand, my local PBS station has been running "The Alamo" and "The Searchers" uncut and uninterrupted - two showings of each in the past week. Turner Classic Movies runs "The Alamo" once in a while too, so look for it there. Movies on commercial stations, including AMC, is never an option.
AW
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