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Post by Rich Curilla on Mar 29, 2014 3:02:10 GMT -5
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Post by Rich Curilla on Mar 29, 2014 3:15:18 GMT -5
Cos' entrenched batter at the south end of Soledad Street, looking south with the plaza beyond. A more distant view, showing the loopholed north side of the buildings. The Barrera house on the left was later occupied by Sam and Mary Maverick from 1841 to 1849. The Ramon Musquiz house is just beyond the cannon emplacement across Potrero Street. Looking north from in front of Cos' battery. The Veramendi house on the far right. The De la Garza house visible between other buildings on the left.
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Post by edward on Mar 29, 2014 14:31:52 GMT -5
Layout of the Casanova / Diaz property.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Mar 29, 2014 15:05:11 GMT -5
Wonderful! I didn't think it would be as large a lot as I projected based on the 1877 "kitchen" location. O.K., back to the drawing board. lol. Thanks.
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Post by edward on Mar 29, 2014 16:05:28 GMT -5
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Post by Rich Curilla on Mar 30, 2014 0:20:47 GMT -5
No, Edward, I did not know. I have to plead ignorance and was about to ask. Actually, the second and third links you offer don't work. However, the first link has obsessed me already. This is a resource that is addictive! lol. Thanks. I have already downloaded details of the whole block north from the plaza -- and many other items.
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Post by edward on Mar 30, 2014 11:14:21 GMT -5
Rich, For some reason part of the links that did not work have been truncated. However they just referred to individual sheets of survey book 1.
PS SIMPLE SEARCH field for SACE 1,39 type the following:
book 1 page 39
for SACE 1,69 type
book 1 page 69
The numbering is one page off from actual doc to web listing. So on my references in this forum using the 'SACE' might be one page off in some cases.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Mar 31, 2014 2:12:07 GMT -5
Man, that last one is mind-blowing! Do you think these would have been original Presidio de Bexar structures or rebuilt by the Gilbeau, Urrutia, etc., after 1836? Unfortunately, I can't get all of the photo in focus and haven't been able to read the whole description, but I did copy a sharp close up of the plat. Can't get the vara readings however. By the way, I am calculating based on 1 vara equaling 2.75 feet, which I understand to be the "Mexican Vara." Rick Range has told me that the "Texas Vara" in use after a certain point (which I didn't get) converts at 1 vara equaling 2.775 feet. What say you?
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Post by Rich Curilla on Mar 31, 2014 2:27:27 GMT -5
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Post by edward on Mar 31, 2014 11:25:16 GMT -5
Man, that last one is mind-blowing! Do you think these would have been original Presidio de Bexar structures or rebuilt by the Gilbeau, Urrutia, etc., after 1836? Unfortunately, I can't get all of the photo in focus and haven't been able to read the whole description, but I did copy a sharp close up of the plat. Can't get the vara readings however. By the way, I am calculating based on 1 vara equaling 2.75 feet, which I understand to be the "Mexican Vara." Rick Range has told me that the "Texas Vara" in use after a certain point (which I didn't get) converts at 1 vara equaling 2.775 feet. What say you? Rich, I think the original Presidio structures as being partial walls with various building materials used to enclose the areas. The vara conversion I am using is 2.777 as this agrees with some of the measurements on the surveys when the numbers are converted in the survey.
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Post by edward on Mar 31, 2014 12:04:40 GMT -5
Here is an angle on my block south from Plaza de las Islas to Calle de Nueva Villa, first with sun shadow and second without but with a working layer that I have just created in order to imbed information from the deed records and plats you have so kindly introduced me to. As you can see, my building locations on the south side of the plaza derived from photos, the Sanborn 1877 map and the W.G.M. Samuel painting are not in line with the Giraud surveys. I plan to redo this block to fine-tune it accordingly. As much as I struggled to get the porte-cochere through the buildings in the right place, I see now that it was right where that narrow, unlabeled survey swath is between the properties. Do you think the J.A. de la Garza building indicated in the survey at the front of his lot was a two-story in 1836, or was even there then? The style in the Samuel painting does not seem to fit that early a period for Bexar. Rich, Yes the two story home belonged to Clemente Delgado and I believe he used it as a school. It was confiscated and returned and later sold to J.A. De La Garza in 1828. The Salinas Family had a large ranch and drove live stock to the Americans during the American Revolution. The family owned the Jacals depicted next to Acequia. Juan Jose Flores also had a large cattle ranch he married Leonor Delgado from the Canary Islands. Their daughter married into the Salinas family and their niece Silvestra Flores married Toribio de la Fuentes y Fernandez in 1780 with Padre Fernandez presiding.
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Post by estebans on Apr 3, 2014 17:17:24 GMT -5
Thanks for the San Antonio/Bexar links, Edward--I've noticed that government archives online are unlikely to permit direct links to individual pages, but don't know the technical reason why. I had been to the home page in the past but not tried the right search term, or known what they call things, so I'd spent some of Wednesday last week photographing a few dozen pages of San Antonio records, and the next day found I could use your link to get to a downloadable online copy of them . . . oh, well--
I do have a biographical note of interest about Anacleto "Cleto" Casanova: I ran across a report that he was a victim of a spring 1843 crime spree attributed to Mabry "Mustang" Gray and his cow-boys. No corroboration on that yet, but I would guess he was working as a carter, driving goods from Corpus Christi to Bexar, maybe as part of the smuggling trade. He does not seem to have a record of RoT military service.
Rich, it was good to see you last month, and probably just was well we didn't really get launched on these topics--next time we run into each other, I will probably know more and be able to say less!
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Post by jrboddie on Apr 4, 2014 7:47:34 GMT -5
edward: Thanks for posting the link and instructions for viewing the old San Antonio survey on line. An interesting thing to me is the width of the streets back then. I would have assumed that they would have been quite narrow but they appear to have been typically 12 varas (about 33 feet). This seems excessive given their mode of transportation (horses and wagons). Looking at Raba's drawing of Commerce street at the Alameda, I estimate that the width is at least 30 feet. So even the roads away from the town center were surprisingly (to me) wide.
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Post by edward on Apr 4, 2014 12:59:48 GMT -5
estebans, Thanks for the info on Cleto. His burial in Campo Santo 15 Apr 1843 was 7 days after his death and it was noted that he was killed by robbers. I would be interested in anything you turn up on him. Also, just north up on Soledad was the property of Placido Olivarri who was Sam Houston’s scout. In MSA it is noted that he hid on the banks of the river when he heard Santa Ana was near because he was marked for death and after a few days fled the city. Would like to know if he participated in any battles.
jrboddie, Last year I was at a presentation about the La Bahia Road (Goliad road) and if I remember right there was set guidelines for the construction of the roads including their width. The problem was that the boundaries where not always physically marked and there was encroachment especially in the city. I am not sure if this is the case what you are refer to, but in most deeds that I have seen lists 12v wide for a street and 8v for an alley. Also there was a requirement of a 4v wide public access to the river at various locations that were often closed off by the property owners near the river (city council minutes). Goliad a main road was even wider maybe not by the wagon ruts but with what was allotted for it. The Alameda/Commerce street was also wide at least just east of Tejeda / Herff property at the Alamo street corner and had the cotton wood trees to establish its boundary.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Apr 4, 2014 13:29:04 GMT -5
Rich, it was good to see you last month, and probably just was well we didn't really get launched on these topics-- next time we run into each other, I will probably know more and be able to say less!Ha! I know this problem well. I just hope you didn't catch more of it from me.
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