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Post by Bill Manuel on May 21, 2012 11:33:23 GMT -5
What was the route that Santa Anna took in 1836 to get to san antonio once he was in Texas from Mexico. I have looked all over the net but can't find anything that gives the right route. Sorry if I posted this in the wrong thread area. Bill
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Post by Allen Wiener on May 21, 2012 13:17:21 GMT -5
I'm not where I can put my hands on it right now, but James Donovan's new book, "The Blood of Heroes," has a detailed description and discussion of Santa Anna's entire route to Bexar.
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Post by Bill Manuel on May 21, 2012 14:10:01 GMT -5
Thanks I'll have to get that book. Bill
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Post by estebans on May 22, 2012 7:35:59 GMT -5
Donovan says that Santa Anna took El Camino Real out of Guerrero. Isn't that present-day Highway 57 to I-35, roughly?
I believe 481 out of Guerrero to 90 is roughly the route of the Woll raid along the smuggling trail that ran north of El Camino Real. Woll's engineering officer was promoted for making the trail suitable for the army's passage quickly enough to achieve some surprise at the destination. That northern route supposedly had reliable water supplies in summer, and was proposed as a route for Texas to invade Mexico after the Vasquez raid for that reason. Instead Woll came the other way. Santa Anna achieved surprise by pushing his army over the main road at the wrong time of year, at the cost of quite a few people and animals.
Urrea took the Atascosito Road along the coast from Matamoros to Goliad, which I think is Highway 77's general path to 183/77A to Goliad itself.
That's from looking at contemporary maps and the nice map in Donovan's book, anyway. I have read that there's a little bit of the original track of El Camino Real visible near San Marcos, with a historical marker, but haven't gone to look at that yet.
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doc
Full Member
Posts: 88
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Post by doc on May 22, 2012 8:58:08 GMT -5
Gents:
While it will be hard to locate nowadays, A TEXAS LEGACY: THE OLD SAN ANTONIO ROAD AND THE CAMINOS REALES, A TRICENTENNIAL HISTORY, 1691-1991, edited by A. Joachim McGraw, John W. Clark, and Elizabeth A. Robbins, traces the 1836 route of the Old San Antonio Road in remarkable detail. The Texas State Department of Highways and Transportation published the report in January, 1991. Your humble correspondent made some modest contributions to this study.
See also Stephen Harrigan's wonderful article, "Highway One" in his anthology COMANCHE MIDNIGHT.
Dios y Tejas,
Doc
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Post by Allen Wiener on May 22, 2012 9:03:38 GMT -5
What I found most interesting was the suggestion by some Mexican officers (DLP?) that Santa Anna should have taken the coastal route, forgotten about Bexar, and hit the colonies and Texas "leadership" (such as it was) directly. I'm still not sure why Bexar was so important.
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Post by TRK on May 22, 2012 9:40:49 GMT -5
The map linked below, drafted for the U.S. Army by Bexar county clerk Thomas Addicks in 1846, shows the route known, among other names, as the Old Presidio Road, used by Santa Anna in February 1836. North of that road is the alternate route from Guerrero to Bexar sometimes called the Woll Road, used by Gen. Adrian Woll in his raid on Bexar in 1842. Note, Bruce Moses, in his notes to the Addicks map, repeated the belief still held in some quarters that the route Santa Anna took to Bexar in 1836 was the Woll route. The Addicks map likely has its share of errors, but it depicts the geography and routes as they were understood in 1846. The map makes a good companion to Almonte's account of the route, the San Luis Battalion itinerary, and Sanchez-Navarro's journal. alamostudies.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=maps&action=display&thread=706
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Post by estebans on May 22, 2012 9:55:47 GMT -5
Thanks for that info, doc & Tom--
Donovan says Santa Anna went to Bexar because he expected to find a sympathetic Tejano population base there, which I guess would have been essential for supplying the army, along with raiding rebel ranchos like Erasmo Seguin's. The Bexar area turned out to be much more federalist than he expected.
I'm curious about what you guys think would have worked for Santa Anna. I'd have struck Galveston and Harrisburg instead, and maybe conceded the Big Thicket for the time being, finished off Bexar at leisure and just kept control of the open plains at first and let the U. S. get used to the idea that the Texas republic was over. Cavalry superiority over the Texians seems like the equivalent of combined air and armor superiority. But I can see how the idea of conceding any territory, even temporarily, would have been unacceptable. I don't think my plan would necessarily have worked for decades--Santa Anna doesn't seem interested in addressing the problems that were breeding federalism in that area--but maybe it would have worked at first. Others will know more than I do so I was wondering what they think S. A. ought to have done.
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Post by TRK on May 22, 2012 10:15:06 GMT -5
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Post by estebans on May 22, 2012 13:28:05 GMT -5
Thanks for the re-direct, Tom: frankly I was afraid to start the thread because I wasn't sure I could frame the question as well as someone who really knows the field can.
I've been promising myself that I'll get a motorcycle again, and one road trip I already wanted to do was go west from Houston on old Highway 90 for the combination of Route 66 and Old Spanish Trail that it embodies. I hadn't known that I could retrace the smugglers' and Woll's and possibly Santa Anna's trail in the process, and that there are reference works on the subject. Very cool to learn that.
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Post by TRK on May 22, 2012 14:04:31 GMT -5
Stephen, Santa Anna's route to Bexar sure isn't an over-researched subject. Retracing his route and Woll's route of 1842 and documenting them in photographs would be pretty cool--if you can keep clear of modern-day smugglers.
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Post by Bill Manuel on May 22, 2012 15:26:08 GMT -5
Thank you all so much for this info. My books on order, I can't wait to get it.
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Post by loucapitano on May 23, 2012 17:55:05 GMT -5
You guys have better resources than I, but I remember seeing a documentary on a History Channel several years ago that sent archeologists with metal detectors on the road Santa Anna was supposed to have taken. They discovered evidence that somewhere on the trail, the column split and then rejoined and they found an eagle headpiece insignia that indicated a possible campsight. Does anyone have info on this TV documentary?
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Post by loucapitano on May 30, 2012 10:15:54 GMT -5
I answered my own question. The Military Channel re-broadcast that episode of "Unknown History" on Memorial Day weekend. Alan Huffines was one of the technical advisors and speakers and made a strong case for the de la Pena diary's authenticity. However, the show's real purpose was to challenge whether Crockett died fighting (al la Disney). I've done enough Alamo research to care neither way. He was there. He died. Nuff said! (Although I know, there will never be enough said...) Overall, I give the documentary a B+. It was strongest when discussing strategy and weakest when discussing de la Pena. I don't doubt his writing, I just consider it another testimony of the conflicting puzzle surrounding the Big Three at the Alamo. When I have time, I'll plow through the Forum material on de la Pena. I'm sure it's extensive and masterful.
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Post by Allen Wiener on May 30, 2012 14:27:19 GMT -5
Lou - what was the title of that documentary? I have so many recorded that I can't sort them anymore. It sounds like this was first shown on the History Channel and is now being re-run on the Military Channel, which (of course) I don't get.
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