paul
Full Member
Posts: 48
|
Post by paul on Oct 7, 2010 13:25:15 GMT -5
Ain't it so.
|
|
|
Post by Jim Boylston on Oct 7, 2010 14:11:24 GMT -5
Alan, it is indeed too bad that scene was deleted. It really rings true, and sounds like the kind of thing that would have amused the real man, based on his own writings.
|
|
|
Post by Allen Wiener on Oct 7, 2010 15:41:13 GMT -5
I agree; a pity. I still think this film, if left in Hancock's control, would have been either a real screen classic or an award-winning HBO mini-series. In fact, I wish they had chosen the latter. Once the Hollywood suits got hold of it, they made a mash of it with some of the worst editing I've seen. I hope they do issue a director's cut.
Allen
|
|
|
Post by gtj222 on Oct 7, 2010 16:18:01 GMT -5
As great as that scene sounds, It makes one wonder what other gems were cut?
|
|
|
Post by alanhufffines on Oct 7, 2010 16:33:34 GMT -5
As great as that scene sounds, It makes one wonder what other gems were cut? About an hour and a half or so. We filmed the entire SJ Campaign with large portions of the Scrape. Houston with the Cherokee, much more cantina and other Bexar/Alamo subplots (the biggest being the Bonham story) and scenes. We made a 1960s epic and all anybody has seen is the two-hour version. The best comparison is Ridley Scott's KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. His movie got the same treatment, but because he is who he is, he was able to save it with an extraordinary (said like Burgess Meridith as the Penguin) DVD.
|
|
|
Post by sloanrodgers on Oct 7, 2010 17:44:35 GMT -5
I liked the last Alamo movie a lot and more than any of the previous films. I would love to see a directors' cut with special features, commentary and stuff like that. My only problems with the film were that Houston was too short (Randy Quaid would've been better ), The Twin Sisters were were depicted as bronze 10 or 12 pounders (they were really small iron 4 pounders) and James Butler Bonham's role was too small. I don't recall this film having any stupid lines, but I guess every movie has a few.
|
|
paul
Full Member
Posts: 48
|
Post by paul on Oct 7, 2010 20:30:20 GMT -5
As great as that scene sounds, It makes one wonder what other gems were cut? About an hour and a half or so. We filmed the entire SJ Campaign with large portions of the Scrape. Houston with the Cherokee, much more cantina and other Bexar/Alamo subplots (the biggest being the Bonham story) and scenes. We made a 1960s epic and all anybody has seen is the two-hour version. The best comparison is Ridley Scott's KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. His movie got the same treatment, but because he is who he is, he was able to save it with an extraordinary (said like Burgess Meridith as the Penguin) DVD. Alan, do you know if John Lee filmed additional versions/angles of Billy Bob's death scene? Hector Garcia, who played the battery sergeant, said in an interview that Hancock indeed did so.
|
|
|
Post by alanhufffines on Oct 8, 2010 11:29:18 GMT -5
About an hour and a half or so. We filmed the entire SJ Campaign with large portions of the Scrape. Houston with the Cherokee, much more cantina and other Bexar/Alamo subplots (the biggest being the Bonham story) and scenes. We made a 1960s epic and all anybody has seen is the two-hour version. The best comparison is Ridley Scott's KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. His movie got the same treatment, but because he is who he is, he was able to save it with an extraordinary (said like Burgess Meridith as the Penguin) DVD. Alan, do you know if John Lee filmed additional versions/angles of Billy Bob's death scene? Hector Garcia, who played the battery sergeant, said in an interview that Hancock indeed did so. I was not there that day so I cannot say for certain. However JLH is a maniac for numerous angles so I wager he did.
|
|
|
Post by alanhufffines on Oct 8, 2010 11:39:28 GMT -5
I liked the last Alamo movie a lot and more than any of the previous films. I would love to see a directors' cut with special features, commentary and stuff like that. My only problems with the film were that Houston was too short (Randy Quaid would've been better ), The Twin Sisters were were depicted as bronze 10 or 12 pounders (they were really small iron 4 pounders) and James Butler Bonham's role was too small. I don't recall this film having any stupid lines, but I guess every movie has a few. I concur on Randy having a better likeness to Houston and Bowie. When the DC comes out you will be pleasantly surprised at how large a role Bonham had. You are 100% right about the Twin Sisters--they were originally a minor plot point and Michael C. wanted the audience to recall a vintage firetruck coming the rescue, IIRC.
|
|
|
Post by sloanrodgers on Oct 11, 2010 18:21:42 GMT -5
I concur on Randy having a better likeness to Houston and Bowie. When the DC comes out you will be pleasantly surprised at how large a role Bonham had. You are 100% right about the Twin Sisters--they were originally a minor plot point and Michael C. wanted the audience to recall a vintage firetruck coming the rescue, IIRC. Yea, Randy had the imposing stature, acting chops and some of the facial features, but then again the movie wasn't about General Houston. Well, I'd like to see the deleted scenes of Bonham sometime as he was an interesting and neglected character of the war. I figured as much on the Twin Sisters Cannon as few people have ever really researched them. Some folks thought they were bronze and I think every author and researcher for the last 175 years has mistakenly said the cannon were beautiful six pounders. Lindley stated in an old Kent Biffle article that he had compiled a list of twelve Texas Revolutionary War participants who claimed the artillery were six pounders, but I don't believe these witnesses were knowledgeable on cannon calibers. Most were Texas rangers, cavalrymen, politicians or weren't even present at San Jacinto. I think the Twin Sisters were exactly what San Jacinto artillery commander George Washington Hockley said they were: "ordinary iron four pounders." I have compiled a list of eleven knowledgeable San Jacinto vets and others ( among them Col. Sidney Sherman, William Bryan, Ramon Caro, Jose de la Pena, etc. ), who said the Twin Sisters Cannon were four pounders, but they've been ignored. I've found that nobody really cares anymore what caliber or metal composition the San Jacinto cannon were as long as they did the job. Recently I contacted a few Texas newspapers to see if they wanted to print the first factual history of the Twin Sisters and none were interested. I even tried to get a hold of Mr. Biffle, but apparently he has retired from writing on Texas history. Sorry to go off topic on a long rant, but I like being called 100% correct on at least one thing.
|
|
|
Post by Rich Curilla on Oct 12, 2010 14:54:38 GMT -5
I too am "holding out" for John's directors cut of THE ALAMO. He has said that, all things considered, he is happy with what they did with what they were forced to cut the film to, but I also understand it from a character arc and story arc perspective. Every script has a story arc (simply speaking, a beginning, middle and end) and character arcs (same thing) for all principle characters. The Alamo was directed and acted with these arcs in place. The chopping of the film by the Disney brass played havoc with all of those perfect balances. Taking Dennis Quaid's Houston as only one example, his character arc balance depended on those scenes with Chief Bowles and Talihina -- and the little Indian children whom he was teaching how to shoot birds with bows and arrows. This all balanced out his over-the-top and "slightly crazy" (as John directed him) General Houston. With those sequences removed, it is totally unfair to even evaluate Quaid's performance. It ain't all there. (Of course, his height is a different thing. lol.) Expand this inequity to other characters and the story arc of the whole film and one quickly sees the problem.
John's plan several years ago was that, if he were to get a gig to do another film for the Mouse House, he would include a directors cut of THE ALAMO in the contract. Maybe now, after the awesome success of THE BLIND SIDE, he will have that opportunity. Hope so.
|
|
|
Post by alanhufffines on Oct 12, 2010 19:57:06 GMT -5
I too am "holding out" for John's directors cut of THE ALAMO. He has said that, all things considered, he is happy with what they did with what they were forced to cut the film to, but I also understand it from a character arc and story arc perspective. Every script has a story arc (simply speaking, a beginning, middle and end) and character arcs (same thing) for all principle characters. The Alamo was directed and acted with these arcs in place. The chopping of the film by the Disney brass played havoc with all of those perfect balances. Taking Dennis Quaid's Houston as only one example, his character arc balance depended on those scenes with Chief Bowles and Talihina -- and the little Indian children whom he was teaching how to shoot birds with bows and arrows. This all balanced out his over-the-top and "slightly crazy" (as John directed him) General Houston. With those sequences removed, it is totally unfair to even evaluate Quaid's performance. It ain't all there. (Of course, his height is a different thing. lol.) Expand this inequity to other characters and the story arc of the whole film and one quickly sees the problem. John's plan several years ago was that, if he were to get a gig to do another film for the Mouse House, he would include a directors cut of THE ALAMO in the contract. Maybe now, after the awesome success of THE BLIND SIDE, he will have that opportunity. Hope so. Rich, check your PMs on this or the other site. Cannot recall. Or email me.
|
|
johnk
Full Member
Posts: 67
|
Post by johnk on Oct 5, 2011 13:54:52 GMT -5
2004 Alamo ..Jim Bowie gives a full description of his illness to Davey Crockett.....as Typhoid phenomia... Maybe he should have told Alamo surgeon .....Who said he had "A peculiar disease of a peculiar nature." Cringe worthy moment for Alamo purist.As Jim explains to the watching public something he possibly didn't have a clue about..... Should have given up being a land speculator and knife fighter and become a doctor. Also when asked by Bowie when Crockett arrives at night and nearly mistaken for enemy "Are you Davy Crockett from Tennessee? " his friend answers "he prefers David" .....Just the sort of thing you would say when you stand the risk of being shot in the dark at night.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Sylvain on Oct 7, 2011 17:46:08 GMT -5
...with lot's of John Wayne dramatic license. e.g. "The Green Berets. But who cares? I still get a lump in my throat.) Have you ever noticed at the end of "The Green Berets" that the reporter (David Jansen) and the kid are standing on the beach in Vietnam at the end of the day, watching the sun set over the surf? What's wrong with that picture? ;-) Well, somehow I lucked out and did not go to Vietnam, although I was an Air Force radar operator from 1967-1976. If my geography is right, they'd be looking east where the sun rises, not sets. That's is, unless 'Nam had a west coast. Paul
|
|