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Post by elcolorado on Dec 13, 2007 9:15:52 GMT -5
Thats an excellent question, Jim. I was one of those guys who believed that Morales' starting position was somewhat SE of the palisade...at least until the abatis showed up. Since that time I assumed that he used the jacales in La Villita to screen his movement towards the south wall.
As I look at the large overview painting done by Nelson, it looks as if the close proximity of the San Antonio River may have discouraged an attack from the SW. I'm not sure of the yardage between the river and the SW corner of the Alamo but it may have been less then the "musket shot" (200yds?) Santa Anna was looking for. Just a guess.
Glenn
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Post by elcolorado on Dec 13, 2007 11:21:46 GMT -5
Ok, Stuart...I think we have some agreement here. I maintain that Morales' task was to be a distraction and a blocking force. By taking the gate Morales still fulfills what I believe was his primary tasking. However, I don't believe he was successful...not initially.
If memory serves me well, you contend that Morales quickly took control of a possibly unmanned lunette. Then Morales' soldados raced inside and up the ramp to the eighteen pounder and captured it. From this point, Morales engages the defenders atop the main gate and quickly takes control of the Galera ( barracks, jail, main gate). Did I get that right?
He's the problem I have with the above theory. We don't no if the lunette was manned fully, partially, or not at all. I tend to believe it was manned...at least in part. The Texans were alerted to the Mexicans presents by the yelling soldados. I feel there would have been sufficient time for the defenders to get some men into the lunette to contest Morales' attack. But even if the lunette was unmanned at the time of the attack, it's capture would have taken some time to accomplish.
As I see it, Morales would have to rapidly cover the distance from wherever his starting point was. Upon reaching the lunette the soldados would have to negotiate the trench with just two ladders and climb a rather tall breastwork. Once inside the lunette Morales' men would have to open the main gate...unless the Texans left it open. Now, as you correctly observed, Morales would be looking at two cannons square in the face. Whether or not he was aware of them is another good question, Stuart. If indeed, Morales actually made it this far, and I don't believe he did, surely the Alamo's defenders would have manned the two gun battery protecting the gate and greeted Morales' soldados to a couple of rounds of canister. And let's not forget the cannon positioned for defense between the convento and the wall connecting to the kitchen. Morales probably didn't know about that one, either.
My position, however, is that Morales pretty much ignored the lunette which had little to no fire power from it's west face. This gave Morales an opportunity to race over to the structure(s) to the southwest and, in relative safety, mount an assault on the eighteen pounder. Once the SW corner was secure the main gate quickly followed.
I don't think that the SW corner and the eighteen pounder were his primary objective, either. I agree that the big gun was a real danger that had to be dealt with. But so too were the guns along the west wall. I just think Morales perceived an opportunity and took some initiative and it clearly worked out well in favor of the Mexicans.
By the time DLP got close enough to observed the action it certainly appeared to him that Morales had captured the main gate. As for the lunette, I feel that shortly after Morales made his penetration into the Alamo, the defenders in the lunette took off (breakout?). As to the direction...well thats any body's guess. Sesma didn't elaborate. Only that they came from the left.
Glenn
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Post by Allen Wiener on Dec 13, 2007 11:33:05 GMT -5
If the Mexicans had ruled out any assault on the palisade, it would have made no sense for Morales to begin at that point at then move west (which is how it's usually been portrayed, including the 2004 movie). If his primary objective was the lunette then it is more likely he began south or southwest of that, perhaps using the remaining buildings as shelter.
As Stuart says, we don't know whether he went after the lunette first or the 18 pounder. This discussion raises several possibilities. In the broadest sense, Morales seems to have been tasked with securing the south end of the compound, including the main gate, disabling the artillery there and preventing Texians at that end from aiding in the defense of the north, which was the Mexican's main objective.
Was part of the plan for Morales to provide a stopper at the south against any Texians attempting to flee from that point, thus forcing them all to the east, where Sesma was waiting. In addition to securing the gate and disabling the canon, was his purpose also to engage as many Texians as possible, thus keeping them from helping out at the north end?
Another point I'd never considered is the Mexicans' not knowing how the Texians in the fort might be positioned, or whether Travis had any sort of defense planned (such as positioning men at the south end to fire into the Mexicans coming from the north). Did Travis have a plan at all and, if so, weren't his options limited? How was such an attack typically planned? The Mexican idea here seems to have been to simply get into the fort, disable the canon, and then mop up the Texians wherever they took shelter. Had Santa Anna (given Cos's experience and knowledge of the fort) expected things to play out as they did? Was Sesma's cavalry there merely as a precaution, or was it part of the plan to flush the Texians out into the open and then run them down?
AW
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Post by Jim Boylston on Dec 13, 2007 11:51:10 GMT -5
This may have been the more likely scenario...that Morales' objective was securing the southern end of the fort. Perhaps we're focusing on individual elements when the objective was broader.
This may have been a by-product of securing the south side rahter than a primary objective. It seems to me that Morales was very proactive if he was only tasked with keeping the defenders on the south tied down while the north was being assaulted.
The record is clear that Santa Anna expected the defenders to bolt. While I don't think any of us consider him a military genius, Santa Anna was a decent bricks and mortar commander. His plan for the Alamo was effective, and it seems to me that he planned the attack pretty well. On the other hand, Travis seems to have done little in the way of preparation, but that's probably a thread in itself. Jim
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Post by elcolorado on Dec 13, 2007 12:05:52 GMT -5
A lot of great questions, Allen.
Possibly based on his past experience with Anglo colonists, I believe Santa Anna expected at least some of the Alamo's defenders to make a run for it. Either to try and link up with Houston or to simply to make it safely to Gonzales.
Santa Anna correctly positioned the bulk of Sesmas lancers to the East and Southeast on or near the most likely routes of travel in anticipation of the breakouts. IMO, it really didn't take a military genus to figure out which direction any fleeing Texans would go. Regardless of where the defenders broke out from, eventually they would all head east toward what they naturally or instinctively believed was safety. So I believe the Texans headed East more so out of desire then of Santa Anna's design.
Glenn
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Post by TRK on Dec 13, 2007 13:01:08 GMT -5
Was Sesma's cavalry there merely as a precaution, or was it part of the plan to flush the Texians out into the open and then run them down? I think that was Santa Anna's hope, and his plan. It was open season anytime lancers had fleeing infantry at their mercy. One classic example that also involved Santa Anna as overall commander was eleven years later, at Buena Vista, late in the second day of the battle (February 23, 1847). Colonel John Hardin, commanding the better part of three regiments of volunteers, extended the force too far out from the main lines. The Mexicans mounted a massive surprise attack on the force, routing it. As the volunteers fled down a deep ravine, trying to make it to safety, Mexican infantry on the crests of the ravine picked them off. A force of Mexican lancers arrived at the mouth of the ravine, to cut off the Americans, and began tearing them up. Fortunately, a U.S. battery at the Narrows lobbed some accurately placed shells at some of the lancers, driving them off. Otherwise, there probably would have been few if any American survivors out of that force.
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Post by Jim Boylston on Dec 13, 2007 13:09:17 GMT -5
As far as that goes, a lot depends on Romero's movements...was his shift to the north planned or accidental? If planned, the "squeeze" seems more calculated. Sesma was certainly tasked with cutting off runners, but Mora also had cavalry to the west. SA covered his bases. Jim
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Post by Herb on Dec 13, 2007 13:11:29 GMT -5
Allen, as Sesma says in his report, " ... I have the honor of telling you that situated in the position that Your Excellency had the goodness to anticipate for me .... " and "The enemy ... displaced from his its first line of fortifications just as Your Excellency predicted ...." (Hansen, 370). It wasn't simply part of the plan, but the plan itself. Glenn, as I said above it was the plan all along to force the defenders into Sesma's Lancers. We talk about the Military Art and Military Science (as you well know). When it comes to planning, perhaps the best example of the Military Art, is figuring out what the enemy wants to do in a given situation, and then developing a plan that reinforces that desire and then defeats the enemy as he executes that desire. Planners, and armchair generals often forget that the enemy has a say in how a battle will be fought. If you can anticipate the enemies desires, develop a battle plan that reinforces those desires, you can control somewhat the enemy's say in the battle. Very clearly, the defenders once the walls were hopelessly scaled would want to try to escape death and flee to fight another day. Also very clearly, the worse case for Santa Anna would be to trap the whole garrison inside the walls of the Alamo - which would have resulted in a bloodier (for his troops) clearing of the compound room by room. Giving the defenders a perceived exit, and allowing/forcing them to use it, would produce a faster and significantly less bloody outcome for the Mexican Army. Then it's simply a matter of position his cavalry far enough away from the Alamo so that the perception of an exit would exist, but close enough to destroy the vast majority of those that chose to escape. Remember, even Santa Anna in his own report wasn't certain of 100% success, mentioning that only a few possibly escaped the cavalry. I don't believe that Morales captured the Main Gate before the SW corner. But, I do believe that the makeup of his force was designed to prevent the Texians from escaping toward the South and toward the River (and thus I concur with your theory of an approach from La Villita). Again, given the composition of his force, I think Morales was given rather broad objectives, rather than a specific mission. But, I feel, an important part of his mission was to push the defenders toward the East and Sesma.
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Post by elcolorado on Dec 13, 2007 17:19:33 GMT -5
No real disagreement here, Wolf. I lean toward the dislodgement theory. Santa Anna clearly wanted it. The overwhelming number of troops he employed against the north wall is pretty good evidence. I don't think Santa Anna had much respect, if any, for the Alamo's defenders...at least as soldiers. He certainly didn't expect the fewer then 200 undisciplined, inexperienced, and exhausted Texans to go toe-to-toe with his 1500 trained soldados. So, yes, he anticipated the breakouts.
Your point about anticipating "the enemies desires" makes sense (nice point). As I stated before, Santa Anna correctly sensed the direction the fleeing Texans were likely to go. The eastern roads were the life-lines to the defenders (where else would they go?). To have left them unguarded would have been a grievous error on Santa Anna's part. As to whether or not the cavalry kept it's distance to leave an open corridor or were simply wanting to stay out of range of the church guns, I can't say with certainty.
However, I think Santa Anna decision not to attack the Alamo from the rear may have been based more so on the height of the church walls, the church guns, and the flooded area. In other words - He didn't attack because he really couldn't attack. The result was what appeared to be an "open door" for the Texans to use to make their escape. Clearly, Santa Anna didn't have any real options in regards to attacking the Alamo's rear defenses. So I guess I'm asking: Was the east corridor open because Santa Anna wanted it open or because attacking the Alamo from the east was unrealistic??
I do agree that Santa Anna "allowed" the defenders to flee east to be intercepted by Sesma. Ok, I have some questions about the Sesma attacks. So I'll need to jump over to the 'Breakout" thread.
Anyway, IMO, the decision to post cavalry to the East was a "no-brainer." No doubt the "gushing" Sesma would disagree with me and praise Santa Anna for his apparent genus.
Glenn
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Post by elcolorado on Dec 13, 2007 17:28:15 GMT -5
I think this would be an excellent thread, Jim. I have a number of questions and comments in regards to Travis' leadership and apparent lack preparation. Glenn
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Post by glforeman on Dec 13, 2007 18:39:36 GMT -5
Because I just walked the area, here are some thoughts: 1) The SE attack would have been caught in a cross-fire. It's a Hollywood fantasy. 2) The Fourth Column moved along the jacales near Alamo St. to the stone house before the firing began. 3) With the North Wall demanding attention, Morales and his men quickly storm the Lunette and take it. 4) From the Main Gate, a detachment makes a bold move up the SW ramp and takes the gun from BEHIND. 5) Using the acequia, SW ramp, and guard house, they hold their positions...DLP now sees them in the distance. Note: the space between the SW ramp and South Wall makes for a nice refuge...thanks to Mark's model I can see that now.
OK, boys, I'm ready for the firing squad.
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Post by Jim Boylston on Dec 13, 2007 19:23:05 GMT -5
I think both, Glenn. Santa Anna could obviously see where it wasn't preferable to attack the eastern front (for the reasons you mention), but he could also see how he could use that front to his advantage. Here's another idea that I'll run up the flagpole: The idea that Morales' assault was a feint has been put forward many times, but what about the possibility that Romero's attack was a feint? Perhaps his initial rush on the east before the northward shift was an attempt to bring the defenders toward that front, putting both the north wall assault force and Morales at their rear and flank. This would serve the dual purpose of clearing the north, south and west perimeters (making the job easier, at any rate) and forcing surviors toward the east and Sesma. Just something else to chew on that I hadn't thought about before... Jim
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Post by Jim Boylston on Dec 13, 2007 19:32:57 GMT -5
Because I just walked the area, here are some thoughts: 1) The SE attack would have been caught in a cross-fire. It's a Hollywood fantasy. 2) The Fourth Column moved along the jacales near Alamo St. to the stone house before the firing began. 3) With the North Wall demanding attention, Morales and his men quickly storm the Lunette and take it. 4) From the Main Gate, a detachment makes a bold move up the SW ramp and takes the gun from BEHIND. 5) Using the acequia, SW ramp, and guard house, they hold their positions...DLP now sees them in the distance. Note: the space between the SW ramp and South Wall makes for a nice refuge...thanks to Mark's model I can see that now. OK, boys, I'm ready for the firing squad. I'll buy points 1, 2 and 5. I still have my doubts about Morales storming the lunette and taking the SW from behind. For one thing, I think if Morales was approaching from behind the stone house it was in his best interest to take the SW corner first, as it was in his immediate path. He might have delivered fire toward the lunette if it was manned, but I think that 18 pounder posed the biggest threat to the overall assault and disabling it was a priority. Of course, it's also possible that there was concurrent action. Maybe some of the soldados attacked the lunette while some hit the SW corner. Like I mentioned in another post, the action wasn't all on a linear timeline. Jim
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Post by tmdreb on Dec 14, 2007 0:55:34 GMT -5
Of course, it's also possible that there was concurrent action. Maybe some of the soldados attacked the lunette while some hit the SW corner. Like I mentioned in another post, the action wasn't all on a linear timeline. Jim This would make sense, especially given the number of men under Morales. 180 men is a small force compared to that attacking the North wall, but it seems a bit large to assault either the SW corner or the lunette one at a time. Or, perhaps perhaps part of the force was detailed to providing covering fire for the men scaling the wall / lunette found little to shoot at, and broadened the assault by taking the whole south wall (bold move?). It's been mentioned once before, but I think it's quite important to realize that it's very likely that when the defenders at the North wall started taking fire from behind, they quit that position and the fate of the compound was sealed. A few men firing from behind a fortified position can dislodge its defenders much quicker than a much larger force attaching the front of the fortifications.
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Post by stuart on Dec 14, 2007 2:10:55 GMT -5
Exactly so and as I mentioned before Santa Anna seems to have had a penchant for this sort of thing - look at Zacatecas
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