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Post by lorinfriesen on Jun 22, 2008 7:05:55 GMT -5
195th Anniversary of the Bloodiest Battle in Texas History
The public is invited to attend the 195th anniversary of the Battle of Medina, at a site in Atascosa County overlooking the Galvan Creek, where between 800 and 1,300 men died August 18, 1813. This was the bloodiest and largest loss of life in any battle in Texas history, and it occurred about 20 miles south of San Antonio, Texas. The ceremony will begin at 10:00 a.m. on Saturday, August 23, 2008, and everyone interested in Texas history is invited. Due to the heat, we will be at the battle site for only about one hour for Former Regent, Peggy Jared of the San Antonio de Bexar Chapter of the Daughters of the American Revolution to dedicate their marker to Revolutionary Patriot Peter Sides, and for the Daughters of the 1812 Society, Connie Surgency, State President, to dedicate their marker. The other Societies will re-dedicate their markers and we will fire a musket salute to all those who participated in this battle on both sides. Everyone will then retire to Pleasanton, Texas for lunch on your own, and then reconvene at the Pleasanton Church of Christ located at 1003 North Main Street for an air-conditioned history seminar from 1:00p.m. to approximately 3:30p.m. in the church meeting hall. The Atascosa DAR Chapter, Peggy Heinen Regent, will join the San Antonio de Bexar DAR Chapter, Pam Daniel Regent in providing us with refreshments in the afternoon at the church during the symposium.
The history seminar will be sponsored by the Alamo Chapter of the Sons of the Republic of Texas and will present the latest research on the First Republic of Texas and the Battle of Medina. Several speakers will be featured, including Robert Thonhoff, KSJ and award winning author, Robert Benavides, SRT and Chairman of the Living History Association of San Antonio, and Dr. Jesus de la Teja, Chair of the History Department at Texas State University, in San Marcos, Texas. Frank, as Dr. de la Teja likes to be called, is also the Former President of the Texas State Historical Association and has been appointed the first Texas Historian by Governor Rick Perry. Other speakers who have a research paper related to this event, and wish to be added to the seminar list, may call Bob Benavides at (210) 279-4973.
To reach the site for the 10:00a.m. outdoor ceremony, proceed south from San Antonio on Highway 281 some 15 miles from the intersection of Loop 410 South and Highway 281, to the community of Espey, Texas, and turn west where signs will direct you to the ceremony. For additional details, contact Tom Green, at (281) 922-1118, or Cell phone (832) 687-3474. Wear a hat and comfortable shoes and bring water!
The Battle of Medina was between approximately a 1,400 man Republican Army of the North, called the Gutierrez-Magee Expedition by historians, and about a 1,800 man Royal Spanish Army commanded by General Joaquin de Arredondo. The Republican Army of the North was truly a diverse group of men, consisting of Tejanos, Native Americans, and adventurers from the U.S.A. with at least one African-American named Thomas. This was at a time in history when only about 2,000 people lived in San Antonio, called San Fernando de Bexar at the time. At lease 5 Patriots of the American Revolution were involved in the Gutierrez-Magee Expedition, and at least one of these Patriots fought and died in the Battle of Medina. Peter Sides, is one of over 50 Patriots of the American Revolution believed to have died and were buried in Texas. Direct descendants of Peter Sides are eligible for membership in both the Sons and Daughter of the American Revolution and The Sons and Daughters of The Republic of Texas. Some of the descendants of Peter Sides will be in attendance for the re-dedication a Sons of the American Revolutionary Patriot Grave Marker. A Grave Marker will also be re-dedicated by the Sons of the Republic of Texas, as descendants of all the approximately 3,200 men who fought on both sides of this battle are possibly eligible for membership in the SRT and the DRT. The descendants of Benjamin Allen, who is also proven to have died in the battle, will re-dedicate the SRT marker. Members of the Mayflower Society will also be on hand to re-dedicate their marker. One of our objectives is to honor the many other participants on both sides of this battle, which is the land battle with the largest loss of life in Texas history. Toward that end, descendants of the Native Americans and the native Tejano participants have also been invited to attend this commemorative ceremony.
Prior to the August 18, 1813 Battle of Medina, the Gutierrez-Magee Expedition that formed the Republican Army of the North won all the battles and declared Texas free from Spain. On April 6, 1813, Bernardo Gutierrez de Lara, and his junta, wrote and signed the First Texas Declaration of Independence. On April 17, 1813, the junta and Governor-Elect Gutierrez approved the First Constitution of Texas in present day San Antonio. A ceremony was held this year in San Antonio commemorating these events. Before San Antonio, the Royal Spanish Army surrounded the Republican Army of the North for four months at the La Bahia fort near Goliad, Texas. This is believed to have been the longest siege in American military history, and is the reason La Bahia today flies the Emerald Green flag of the Republican Army of the North. This is one of the nine flags flown over La Bahia.
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Post by bmoses on Jan 4, 2010 0:58:24 GMT -5
As many of you may know, the Battle of the Medina is considered to be Texas's most significant "lost battlefield" and reestablishing it's location makes for a great mystery!
For many different reasons (too numerous to point out in this initial post), confusion and misinformation have dominated recent attempts to relocate the site. For the past five years, I've been studying the historic accounts and modern reconstructions, as well as reviewing the scant remaining physical traces linked to this location in the hopes of finding this important historic site. Throughout this process, I have come to understand many of the mistakes made by previous researchers...mistakes which have unfortunately shifted the search for this battlefield several miles away from its actual location.
I would like to bat around some of my ideas with any of you who may be interested.
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Post by mustanggray on Jan 4, 2010 10:36:18 GMT -5
I'm interested in the battle and site... the bicentennial is coming and I'd like to do some commemorative events as well as some living history events. Anything I can learn from a student of the battle helps me with my understanding... so fire away!!!
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Post by Kevin Young on Jan 4, 2010 11:25:00 GMT -5
I'm interested in the battle and site... the bicentennial is coming and I'd like to do some commemorative events as well as some living history events. Anything I can learn from a student of the battle helps me with my understanding... so fire away!!! Get Bob Thonhoff's book from Eakin Press: good start. Then I would ready Henderson's new book on the Mexican Wars for Independence for over all background. Then look to your mail box at home: sending what I have in my files!
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Post by bmoses on Jan 4, 2010 15:00:40 GMT -5
Ted Schwarz and Robert Thonhoff’s Forgotten Battlefield of the First Texas Revolution: The Battle of Medina is certainly packed with essential information – this book is a must have for anyone doing serious research about the battle. Unfortunately, this volume also draws several inaccurate conclusions regarding locations mentioned in the first-hand accounts, and these errors have contributed significantly to the fact that the battlefield is still missing.
Initially, during the course of my research, I found that the precise route of the Laredo Road across southern Bexar and northern Atascosa Counties in 1813 was not properly known. Virtually all of the key events prior to the morning of August 18 take place along its course.
General Arredondo’s army of Spanish Royalist left the village of Laredo and marched toward the town of San Antonio along this road. On August 17, the Spanish Army, traveling along the Laredo Road, crossed the Atascosa River at a ford which today lies within the modern town of Pleasanton. Arredondo continued along this same route where his army passed a landmark known as Rancherias. That evening, the Royalist made camp on high ground near a large pond (likely near Gallinas Creek).
Coming at it from the other direction, on the night of August 16 General Toledo and his Republican Army of the North bivouacked astride the Laredo Road at Piedras Creek, a stream now known as Six Mile Creek which empties into the San Antonio River across from Mission San Juan. The following day, Toledo moved his army further south along the same road making camp on the north side of the Medina River in the vicinity of modern Losoya. That evening, Toledo sent scouts to reconnoiter the Royalist camp. It is important to note that they also found the Spaniards along the Laredo Road just as expected.
If you're familiar with the Schwarz/Thonhoff account, you'll notice a number of differences with the details that I've outlined above. Hopefully this will get the discussion rolling and I'll add more when I get a chance.
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Post by Kevin Young on Jan 4, 2010 15:57:06 GMT -5
Ted Schwarz and Robert Thonhoff’s Forgotten Battlefield of the First Texas Revolution: The Battle of Medina is certainly packed with essential information – this book is a must have for anyone doing serious research about the battle. Unfortunately, this volume also draws several inaccurate conclusions regarding locations mentioned in the first-hand accounts, and these errors have contributed significantly to the fact that the battlefield is still missing. Initially, during the course of my research, I found that the precise route of the Laredo Road across southern Bexar and northern Atascosa Counties in 1813 was not properly known. Virtually all of the key events prior to the morning of August 18 take place along its course. General Arredondo’s army of Spanish Royalist left the village of Laredo and marched toward the town of San Antonio along this road. On August 17, the Spanish Army, traveling along the Laredo Road, crossed the Atascosa River at a ford which today lies within the modern town of Pleasanton. Arredondo continued along this same route where his army passed a landmark known as Rancherias. That evening, the Royalist made camp on high ground near a large pond (likely near Gallinas Creek). Coming at it from the other direction, on the night of August 16 General Toledo and his Republican Army of the North bivouacked astride the Laredo Road at Piedras Creek, a stream now known as Six Mile Creek which empties into the San Antonio River across from Mission San Juan. The following day, Toledo moved his army further south along the same road making camp on the north side of the Medina River in the vicinity of modern Losoya. That evening, Toledo sent scouts to reconnoiter the Royalist camp. It is important to note that they also found the Spaniards along the Laredo Road just as expected. If you're familiar with the Schwarz/Thonhoff account, you'll notice a number of differences with the details that I've outlined above. Hopefully this will get the discussion rolling and I'll add more when I get a chance. Well, having known Bob for some time, I enjoyed his book as a base, but also tended to feel that the his location was not where it should be...so-in a general sense, where are you putting the battle? From how it sounds, the 1936 Marker may actual be close to the right location after all!
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Post by bmoses on Jan 4, 2010 19:07:14 GMT -5
For various reasons, I hesitate to post publicly even a general area where I suspect the battle occurred. KRY, I’ll send you a PM a bit later with the specifics I’ve put together thus far. Let me give a brief background to explain the previous statement.
In late 2007, I had a discussion with an amateur metal-detectorist in which I outlined in broad terms what I believed at the time to be the location of the battle. The next day I was shocked to find details of our conversation posted on a popular treasure-hunter web site. This posting in turn led to a series of amateur “archaeological digs” around the target area that we had discussed. Fortunately, I have since revised the location I proposed to him at that time.
Since then, I’ve watched anxiously each time a new “dig” for the Battle of the Medina has been announced. My principal concern continues to be landowner/access issues as well as the long-term preservation of the site. I hope my concern doesn’t come across as “elitist” or “proprietary,” - I'm well aware that the professional archaeologist often gets that reputation! Quite the contrary, I know of many amateur metal-detectorists who have selflessly given their time and energy to assist with the survey of historic sites.
The problem, as I see it, lies in the distinct possibility that one or two bad apples (treasure-hunters without a conscience) could learn the whereabouts of a “rediscovered” battle site and, in turn, could strike out on their own before the site has a chance to be properly recorded (digging by moonlight or flashlight seems to be a favorite method here in south-central Texas). Aside from the obvious loss of information, it’s also a distinct possibility that an angry landowner could choose to fence off his land and close the property to further research.
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Post by Kevin Young on Jan 4, 2010 19:49:34 GMT -5
For various reasons, I hesitate to post publicly even a general area where I suspect the battle occurred. KRY, I’ll send you a PM a bit later with the specifics I’ve put together thus far. Let me give a brief background to explain the previous statement. In late 2007, I had a discussion with an amateur metal-detectorist in which I outlined in broad terms what I believed at the time to be the location of the battle. The next day I was shocked to find details of our conversation posted on a popular treasure-hunter web site. This posting in turn led to a series of amateur “archaeological digs” around the target area that we had discussed. Fortunately, I have since revised the location I proposed to him at that time. Since then, I’ve watched anxiously each time a new “dig” for the Battle of the Medina has been announced. My principal concern continues to be landowner/access issues as well as the long-term preservation of the site. I hope my concern doesn’t come across as “elitist” or “proprietary,” - I'm well aware that the professional archaeologist often gets that reputation! Quite the contrary, I know of many amateur metal-detectorists who have selflessly given their time and energy to assist with the survey of historic sites. The problem, as I see it, lies in the distinct possibility that one or two bad apples (treasure-hunters without a conscience) could learn the whereabouts of a “rediscovered” battle site and, in turn, could strike out on their own before the site has a chance to be properly recorded (digging by moonlight or flashlight seems to be a favorite method here in south-central Texas). Aside from the obvious loss of information, it’s also a distinct possibility that an angry landowner could choose to fence off his land and close the property to further research. You know, after I asked that question, I suddenly thought to myself, "stupid you-this is not something you want to make public cause your going to have pot holes everywhere!" In short, my bad, and I completly understand. Don't know what I was thinking-got excited, because this is one of my fond study areas!
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Post by bmoses on Jan 7, 2010 22:34:03 GMT -5
The geographical, topographical, cartographical, and historical record…all indicate with certainty that the so-called ‘Battle of Medina’ was fought near Galvan Creek in northern Atascosa County, and not on the Medina River some twelve miles distant in Bexar County. With these concluding remarks made a quarter of a century ago, historian Robert H. Thonhoff, editor and annotator of “Forgotten Battlefield of the First Texas Revolution: The Battle of Medina, August 18, 1813,” persuasively shifted the search for the lost battlefield many miles to the southwest, into the cultivated fields of north-central Atascosa County. Thonhoff and author Ted Schwarz’s case was so strong that in 2005, at the 192nd anniversary commemoration of the battle, the Texas Historical Commission chose to dedicate a new Texas Historical Marker at the proposed location. In fact, over time the manuscript has even begun to take on an heir of infallibility. Viewpoints like the one expressed below by C.F. 'Charley' Eckhardt on True West Magazine’s website ( www.truewestmagazine.com/) are not uncommon and demonstrate a reluctance by some to question the conclusions arrived at by Schwarz and Thonhoff: The 'historians' need to talk to Bob Thonhoff in Karnes City. He's got the location pinpointed. The problem is, that sugar sand is 40 to 50 feet deep in most places. It'll bog anything but the lightest 4-wheel drive vehicles & if you don't get your truck towed out in a day or so it'll have sunk to the windows in that stuff.
You can't even dig in the stuff because it's so fine it just slides back into the hole. Unless anyone digging there uses a coffer dam, he's just wasting time & effort. I seriously doubt any relics will be recovered because by now they'll be at the bottom of the sugar sand. Mr. Eckhardt makes a valid point about the potential effects of the “sugar sand” that blankets the region. In 2007, as Vice Chairman of the Southern Texas Archaeological Association, I had an opportunity to lead the survey of this site in Atascosa County. We indeed found the sand to be quite thick (although there was no problem with sand sliding back in the hole), but we were able to recover a single hand-forged horseshoe at a depth of around five inches. This offered us proof that there was still a high potential to sense period artifacts with metal detectors. Other than the horseshoe, little more was found aside from a few soda cans, modern nails, and short strands of rusted barbed wire. But there is a more critical issue to be addressed: Are Schwarz and Thonhoff’s interpretations of events surrounding the battle correct? Is the Applewhite Road/Bruce Road site in Atascosa County the location of the infamous Battle of the Medina? Over the next several posts on this board, I will begin to lay out a case for why I believe it is not. In fact, I believe that once the true location of the Medina battlefield is fully understood, the battle’s supposed location along Galvan Creek will become little more than a footnote in the annals of history.
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Post by Kevin Young on Jan 7, 2010 22:49:50 GMT -5
Way cool! I am looking forward to this discussion!
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Post by Herb on Jan 8, 2010 18:35:50 GMT -5
Bruce, while I may not be able to contribut anything meaningful, I'm looking forward to reading your analysis!
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Post by Kevin Young on Jan 8, 2010 20:39:19 GMT -5
Bruce-did they not find a body during some road construction that they thought could have been Menchaca's?
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Post by bmoses on Jan 9, 2010 2:28:10 GMT -5
Below is brief description of the “Blue Wing Road Burial” exhumed by Anne Fox in May, 1968. Portions of two long bones and the top of a skull had been initially observed eroding from the scraped portions of the road by a road grading crew. The shallow grave was located about 750 feet east of the road’s intersection with South Flores Street. The young man that was exhumed from Blue Wing Road was indeed found to be one of the unfortunate casualties of one of the battles that took place near San Antonio in 1813. The question remains: which one? The problem is that this location is roughly equidistance between both the Battle of the Medina and another lost battlefield, the Battle of Rosillo. The Battle of Rosillo (originally known as the Battle of Salado) had been fought earlier that same year (March 29, 1813) as the Republican Army of the North, led by Bernardo Gutiérrez de Lara and Samuel Kemper, moved on San Antonio from the direction of Presidio la Bahía. The defeated Spanish Royalists likely scattered in much the same way that the rebels are said to have done after their defeat at the Battle of Medina. Since the discovery of the burial, discussions have centered on the possibility that the gentleman may have been the famed Tejano cavalry leader, Colonel Miguel Menchaca. This possibility was suggested after a large lead ball was discovered just below the right side of his chin. The ball, measuring 30mm and weighing 4oz, would be roughly equal to 1.18 calibers – too large to have been fired from a smooth bore musket. It is more likely that this man was the victim of grape or canister shot fired at close range. One additional detail lends credence to the Miguel Menchaca interpretation. Physical anthropologists who studied the bones determined that the body was that of a Hispanic male. Colonel Menchaca was a central character in the events of 1812-1813. At the Battle of Medina, Menchaca led the Tejano division when, at the height of battle, he was struck in the neck and fell from his horse. His loss from the fight marked the high tide of the insurgent’s efforts, and in his absence the lines broke. According to Antonio Menchaca’s Memoirs, Colonel Menchaca managed to escape from the battlefield but died of his wounds shortly thereafter. He was said to have been buried by his friends along the “Seguin road” at the place called Menchaca Creek, or " Canada de Menchaca". Of course, the "Seguin Road" reference would not refer to a road leading to the town of Seguin since it was established much later in 1838. The road also wouldn't have lead to Erasmo Seguin’s rancho near Floresville (ca. 1820). It must then refer to one of the several other Seguin family ranches that existed along the way between San Antonio and Goliad. There are also clues that refute the claim that this was the body of Miguel Menchaca. Physical anthropologists determined the age of the man at 24 years. Miguel Menchaca is believed to have been 42 years old at the time of his death. Also, the location of the burial just west of the Laredo Road would have been too close to the pursuing Royalists to safely dig a grave - even a shallow one. It seems more plausible that soldier was taken to this location and left. In the days immediately following the battle and before decomposition began, the man was given a hasty burial by friends or relatives who knew where to find his body. As a side note, the Blue Wing Road burial is the only archaeologically excavated feature clearly linked to this tragic episode in Texas history. There are additional photos of the burial in-situ which I’m sure would make for some very interesting discussions. Unfortunately, I must refrain from posting them here out of respect for the deceased. Excavations underway in May, 1968.A profile drawing of burial made at the time of the exhumation highlights the orientation of the burial as well as the location of the several associated artifacts. Based on the location and size of the buttons recovered, it is clear that the gentleman had been wearing knee pants.Seven copper buttons were recovered. This W-type button came into the picture quite early but ceased to be manufactured around 1800. The clothing does not fit what would be expected for a Spanish soldier at the time, and it seems likely that the person was wearing civilian pants and was actually an unfortunate member of the Republican Army.This is the lead ball was removed from below the right side of gentleman’s chin. The ball, measuring 30mm and weighing 4oz, would be roughly equal to 1.18 calibers.
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Post by Jim Boylston on Jan 9, 2010 6:48:33 GMT -5
Fascinating, Bruce. Great post! Jim
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Post by Paul Sylvain on Jan 9, 2010 9:03:45 GMT -5
This really fascinating stuff. I sort of overlooked this one for too long. Now I'm hooked.
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