johnk
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Posts: 67
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Post by johnk on Jan 22, 2013 13:33:32 GMT -5
I have a full-sized replica of the Musso Bowie knife, which has a 13-inch blade and is nearly 19 inches overall. It is very heavy and I cannot see someone lugging this thing around all the time. It would be awkward and impractical. It does seem more like a specialized tool that could be brought along on specific expeditions, military operations, etc., when such a knife could be employed in the practical way that Stuart suggests. I still wonder if Bowie really carried a knife with him at all times, as we have become conditioned to believe thanks to Hollywood. From the descriptions of the Sand Bar fight, it doesn't seem that anyone else was armed with a knife or regarded knives as practical weapons to have "just in case" when heading for something like that. It seems that the Bowie brothers had concluded that a knife of some particular type, size, design could be a very good defensive weapon in a pinch, especially considering that firearms only fired once. If they missed their target or misfired, as several did at the Sand Bar, things could move to a hand-to-hand situation rather quickly. I to have a replica Musso Bowie..and agree its very large knife...Do you think as I do that there is a possibility the familiar Bowie shape was a product of Sheffield Knife makers UK seeing an opportunity to supply the American Market with their design and the market accepted it as it had no idea of what an original Bowie knife design was.?...could be wrong
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johnk
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Post by johnk on Jan 22, 2013 13:42:40 GMT -5
How would the old Bowie knives 1830s compare with the new steels today ??...Im assuming they would be more brittle and weaker .........Wrong ??......Were they full tang ??
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Post by Allen Wiener on Jan 22, 2013 14:53:03 GMT -5
I have so little knowledge or recollection of this kind of info that I hesitate to respond, but I believe there are some books and articles that address these points, possibly in some of the knife magazines, such as "Blade." My guess is that the knives of that period were not very different from those that we see fairly commonly in Civil War era photographs. I've seen portrait photos of soldiers holding such knives and others from the CW in museums. By that time, I believe Bowie Knives were common and came in various sizes and shapes, so the term had become a generic one by then. Someone who knows more, please correct me, but I believe the early 19th century knives were made of carbon steel, which rusts and deteriorates if not maintained carefully with lubricants (that is the case with the Generation 2 Bowie replicas that I bought). More modern knives are generally made of stainless steel. I do seem to recall reading somewhere that Sheffield was a major innovator, and perhaps creator, of what came to be called Bowie Knives during the earlier era, but, again, I cannot recall specific sources. Here are a couple of websites with some info: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowie_knifewww.historicarkansas.org/knife_gallery/The following, from the Texas Handbook Online, includes this: "English cutlers in Sheffield, who had dominated the American cutlery market since colonial times, took advantage of the fascination with the Bowie knife. They capitalized on vivid reports by English journalists of murder and mayhem in America involving the weapon. A trickle of Sheffield Bowie knives in the early 1830s developed into a flood before the Civil War." www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/lnb01
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johnk
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Posts: 67
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Post by johnk on Jan 22, 2013 20:03:30 GMT -5
Many thanks for taking time to reply.....I live in UK and have 4 large Bowie knives which I have on display in cabinet....I like to have as much knowledge about them as Ican aquire .Iam 62 and always been interested in the Alamo and Bowie.My collection which mainly comes from US is not particularly valuable but the look of the Bowie is very impreesive.I have just ordered a Natchez SK5 Coldsteel Boiwe from US..The price difference compared to buying here is amazing even after import tax and custom duties.............John PS I watch youtube vids and Nutnfany and John Fitzen seem quite knowlegable.
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johnk
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Posts: 67
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Post by johnk on Jan 22, 2013 20:15:00 GMT -5
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Post by sloanrodgers on Jan 22, 2013 20:18:52 GMT -5
Would I be right in saying that the readily identified Bowie clip point blade came about due to demand in USA from Sheffield in UK to satisfy peoples idea of what Bowie Knife was ?And therefore a huge export market for Sheffied UK..........(Im English) Or more likely it came about from the clip points of earlier Spanish fighting and folding knives. I believe this blade design has existed for hundreds of years in Europe.
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Post by sloanrodgers on Jan 23, 2013 18:17:50 GMT -5
Joseph Rogers and Sons of Sheffield, England may have invented the first modern multi-tool knife in 1818 according to a London paper. It supposedly had 30 blades and various instruments. One being a handy gun screw for those occasions when your flintlock unlocked its flint, etc. ;D
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Post by sloanrodgers on Apr 7, 2013 18:13:02 GMT -5
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Post by Allen Wiener on Apr 8, 2013 14:23:37 GMT -5
It is to laugh. P.T. Barnum certainly knew what he was talking about.
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Post by sloanrodgers on Apr 8, 2013 18:13:59 GMT -5
It is to laugh. P.T. Barnum certainly knew what he was talking about. Indeed and maybe there's one for this knife. It kind of looks like a prop Bowie for a movie. I don't think Barnum actually said: There's a sucker born every minute. I believe it's an old gambling maxim with the "sucker" reference and attributed to a few people.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Apr 9, 2013 19:22:55 GMT -5
The clipped point/end of the blade is identical to the movie prop called the "Iron Mistress," but I've never seen that shape on any authentic 19th century knife.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Apr 9, 2013 22:43:06 GMT -5
It's a dandy alright.
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Post by loucapitano on Apr 10, 2013 10:11:07 GMT -5
The only Bowie Knife I'll ever need is the one my fiance (now wife) gave me for my cross country motorcycle trip in 1973. I still treasure the amazing German made razor sharp blade. It was virtually the only tool I needed for camping out each night. That is, except for the vice-grip and hammer which you needed for a Harley Shovel-head back in the day.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Apr 10, 2013 13:52:46 GMT -5
The only Bowie Knife I'll ever need is the one my fiance (now wife) gave me for my cross country motorcycle trip in 1973. I still treasure the amazing German made razor sharp blade. It was virtually the only tool I needed for camping out each night. That is, except for the vice-grip and hammer which you needed for a Harley Shovel-head back in the day. Haha!! So you were a biker! A few years ago, I hosted a biker gang at Alamo Village. Their name? "The Deguellos!" All great guys and girls. I took the opportunity to show off a bit by whistling the whole real Deguello for them, only to find a year later that I ended up on their website in a video whistling the Deguello. Now, Curilla whistling the Deguello is always readily available when you Google "Deguello." LOL.
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Post by sloanrodgers on Apr 10, 2013 19:23:37 GMT -5
The clipped point/end of the blade is identical to the movie prop called the "Iron Mistress," but I've never seen that shape on any authentic 19th century knife. I wasn't thinking that far back, but to the 2004 movie. I seem to recall someone wielding a curved antler-handled knife.
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