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Post by cantador4u on Nov 5, 2010 18:22:50 GMT -5
I’ve been wondering about Col Juan Seguin. He was a hero of the Texas Revolution and lived his life working in politics. In The Texas Handbood of History Online they give a write-up of his life. Below is a section from 1840 to 1848 www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/fse08…In the spring of 1840 he resigned his Senate seat to assist Gen. Antonio Canales, a Federalist, in an abortive campaign against the Centralists, but upon his return to San Antonio at the end of the year he found himself selected mayor. In this office Seguín became embroiled in growing hostilities between Anglos and Mexican Texans. He faced personal problems as well. He had gained the enmity of some residents by speculating in land. He financed his expedition in support of Canales by mortgaging property and undertook a smuggling venture in order to pay off the debt. Although upon his return from Mexico he came under suspicion of having betrayed the failed Texan Santa Fe expedition, he still managed to be reelected mayor at the end of 1841. His continuing conflicts with Anglo squatters on city property, combined with his business correspondence with Mexico, incriminated him in Gen. Rafael Vásquez's invasion of San Antonio in March 1842. In fear for his safety, Seguín resigned as mayor on April 18, 1842, and shortly thereafter fled to Mexico with his family.
He spent six years in Mexico and then attempted to reestablish himself in Texas. While living in Mexico he participated, according to him under duress, in Gen. Adrián Woll's invasion of Texas in September 1842. Afterward his company served as a frontier defense unit, protecting the Rio Grande crossings and fighting Indians. During the Mexican War his company saw action against United States forces. At the end of the war he decided to return to Texas despite the consequences. …At The Seguin Family Historical Society website there are more details fleshing out his history www.seguinfamilyhistory.com/daniel.htmlBut with independence came many American newcomers to San Antonio who mistreated the native families. While serving as Mayor of Bexar, he was branded a Mexican sympathizer and was forced to flee for his life. He died at Nuevo Laredo in 1889, unappreciated for his service to Texas.It seems to me like he was loved by the Tejanos but Anglos didn’t like him much. Can anyone share some insight into the story of Juan Seguin. He was a hero that fell from grace, or perhaps was pushed? A more mundane question, there is a portrait of him wearing a uniform covered with gold ribbing (??). Is this a uniform he actually wore? Paul Meske Sun Prairie, Wisconsin |
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Post by Allen Wiener on Nov 5, 2010 21:18:05 GMT -5
I don't have the specific answer, Paul, but Tejanos definitely fell out of favor after the war for Texas independence. Sequin was shoved aside, despite his personal sacrifices, and ended up fighting for Mexico in the Mexican War. See Paul Lack's book for more on this ("The Texas Revolutionary Experience").
Allen
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Post by alanhufffines on Nov 5, 2010 21:37:53 GMT -5
Sequin is in more or less regulation uniform for the RoT Cavalry. The gold trim across the breast is not mentioned in the regulations and this could have been something he modified based on personal taste.
As to Sequin as an individual. IMHO, he was a self-serving quisling. But that is just me.
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Post by Seguin on Nov 5, 2010 23:11:41 GMT -5
I think he was a true Texan hero. Just have a look at the list of his accomplishments (it´s on the net).
He was in Woll´s army when they invaded Texas for a short spell in 1842, but it was something he had to do in order to get out of the Mexican jail, where he was incarcerated as a traitor to Mexico. They told him he could "redeem" himself by joining the Mexican army, or he could stay and rot in jail. Not much of a choice really, because you did´nt last long in the Mexican jails, as I´m sure Steven Austin would tell us.
I think the real traitors were the no-good Texians who arrived after independence and forced Tejanos like Seguin to leave their own country. To them, all Tejanos were just "Mexicans", who should´nt be allowed to own any land or have any power. And they sure succeeded to a large degree in their evil doings.
It´s quite a sad story really. First Seguin becomes a hero from the Alamo and San Jacinto, a Texian Senator and Mayor of San Antonio. Then a new wave of Anglo immigrants forces Seguin and other Tejanos to flee for their life to Mexico. Mexico then forces Seguin into their army and then he ends up being seen as a traitor to Texas too.
After he settled again in Texas, his reputation was somewhat restored. He became Justice of the peace and co-founder of the Democratic Party in Bexar in later years. He also received a pension from the State of Texas for his contributions to the Texan Revolution. That would´nt have happened if he really was a traitor, I think.
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Post by Paul Sylvain on Nov 6, 2010 6:11:45 GMT -5
Not to mention having a town named after him ...
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Post by Chuck T on Nov 6, 2010 9:21:44 GMT -5
I fully agree with the last two posts, particularly with what Seguin posted, every last word of it. Quisling is a very harsh word, and one that I do not believe is remotely applicable in this instance.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Nov 6, 2010 14:55:03 GMT -5
Not to mention having a town named after him ... Ironically, there is a song written about the town of Seguin, but none about Juan that we came across. The case FOR Seguin is pretty strong. |
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Post by alanhufffines on Nov 6, 2010 17:09:00 GMT -5
Like I wrote, quisling. Keep digging (off the net) and you will find out. And the town was renamed for him.
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Post by Chuck T on Nov 6, 2010 17:27:34 GMT -5
You made the charge sir. The burden of proof lies with you.
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Post by Kevin Young on Nov 6, 2010 17:30:11 GMT -5
I would like to say first that I have been friends with the Seguin family for many years...but for me there is still a cloud over Juan's actions...
One thing is for sure Ben and Henry McCulloch did not have a very high opinion of him, and during the 1846 War were very set on over taking him and his men. Take a look at the letter Ben wrote William W.S. Bliss on 23 June 1846 as quoted byCutrer in Ben McCulloch and the Frontier Military Tradition pg.75
Brother Henry compared him to Benedict Arnold and Judas Iscariot. I should point out that both McCullochs knew Seguin and Ben served with him at San Jacinto.
I tend to think Juan got caught in the vacum that followed San Jacinto and the Texas-Mexican Border Wars of 1839-1842. His involement in Mexican affairs below the Rio Grande may have been understandable to some of the old timers, but to the new wave of immigrants, and in light of the border fighting, things tended to get to be us vs.them and Juan's dealings helped get him in trouble. Certainly, that he fought against Texas and US troops is documented...
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Post by Allen Wiener on Nov 6, 2010 17:58:22 GMT -5
Like I wrote, quisling. Keep digging (off the net) and you will find out. And the town was renamed for him. Correct and, as I say, the song is about the town, not the man. |
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Post by alanhufffines on Nov 6, 2010 18:31:43 GMT -5
I would like to say first that I have been friends with the Seguin family for many years...but for me there is still a cloud over Juan's actions... One thing is for sure Ben and Henry McCulloch did not have a very high opinion of him, and during the 1846 War were very set on over taking him and his men. Take a look at the letter Ben wrote William W.S. Bliss on 23 June 1846 as quoted byCutrer in Ben McCulloch and the Frontier Military Tradition pg.75 Brother Henry compared him to Benedict Arnold and Judas Iscariot. I should point out that both McCullochs knew Seguin and Ben served with him at San Jacinto. I tend to think Juan got caught in the vacum that followed San Jacinto and the Texas-Mexican Border Wars of 1839-1842. His involement in Mexican affairs below the Rio Grande may have been understandable to some of the old timers, but to the new wave of immigrants, and in light of the border fighting, things tended to get to be us vs.them and Juan's dealings helped get him in trouble. Certainly, that he fought against Texas and US troops is documented... Thank you. Seguin followed the Mexican Revolutionary model--change sides if it ain't going your way (Almonte anyone?--but at least he stayed Centralist). Santa Anna is rightfully condemned for his actions of forgetting who brought him to the dance. But with Seguin, it's alright because he was 'picked on by racists' and was run out of Bexar. Being a victim of racism seems to make any other sin acceptable or at least forgivable these days. Because he is one of the few Tejanos to serve with the federalist Texians it has become fashionable to raise him on the altar with the other heroes because his early efforts outweigh his later mistakes. Then why don't we honor Arnold--his early work was extraordinary and possibly changed the course of the Revolution. He had good reason to feel betrayed. Regardless, he was and is a traitor. Seguin is good company for him. |
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Post by alanhufffines on Nov 6, 2010 18:36:46 GMT -5
You made the charge sir. The burden of proof lies with you. I did not charge anything. I stated an honest opinion and rather than agreeing to disagree in a respectable manner I was charged with poor word choice and not doing enough google searches. If anyone has a different opinion than me, fine, but I don't get bent if I disagree with them. That is not history. We cannot get upset with conflicting opinions. |
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Post by cantador4u on Nov 6, 2010 18:43:29 GMT -5
QUISLING
I'd never heard this word before so I looked it up.
Definition -Quissling: A traitor who serves as the puppet of the enemy occupying his or her country.
Definition - coined after Vidkun Quisling, who assisted Nazi Germany to conquer his own country and ruled the collaborationist Norwegian government, is a term used to describe traitors and collaborators.
Obviously quite a loader term. One could ask who was the enemy occupying Texas, Mexico or the Anglo Texans.
We are all here to LEARN more. Please let's keep this discussion on a factual basis. No one benefits when emotions take over.
Paul Meske
Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
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Post by Chuck T on Nov 6, 2010 19:07:14 GMT -5
Paul: That was my point. The term Quisling did not seem to fit Seguin. I was and am quite aware of his post revolutionary activities. I have always thought that his shortfalls were due more to circumstance than anything else. Perhaps I am giving him a pass because of his service to Texas during the revolution.
His service to Mexico during the Mexican war cannot be counted as treason I don't believe. For it to be such Seguin would have had to be a United States Citizen, and I don't believe he was, at least not then.
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