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Post by Herb on Apr 25, 2010 10:52:02 GMT -5
While Rogers has been an interest of mine, I haven't really studied the topic very well.
Gary, you may remember, I told you that John Stark is an ancestor of mine, and so I tend to remember anything I read about him. What you've been discussing reminded me of something I read in John Ross's book War on the Run.
Ross quoted from an 1831 biography of Stark that apparentally Stark said he "was of the opinion that [Rogers] would have proved a true man to his native country; had not suspicions been entertained of his designs. He was denounced as a Tory before he avowed his principles. Washington considered him a British agent and as such prohibited his entering the camp."
Ross goes on to say that Stark was known for his "brutal honesty" and quotes again from the 1831 biography, that when Stark's brother who had joined the Loyalist New Hampshire Volunteers died when he was thrown from a horse that it "was the best thing William ever did in his life."
If Stark said that about his own brother, it would seem that his assessment of Rogers was probably an honest one and not colored by friendship.
Gary, while, I'm not sure, it seems to me that Rogers was probably better known in America at the beginning of the Revolution as a military hero than Washington. Do you think Washington's actions against Rogers as Rogers was supposedly going to Philidelphia to seek a commison from Congress were personally motivated?
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Post by stuart on Apr 25, 2010 12:14:09 GMT -5
I'm not sure why this thread is still lingering under the Alamo History heading, but its certainly an intriguing thought. While Washington has been revered since the revolution as the father of his country, his reputation at the outset is a great deal less impressive. He certainly fancied himself as a soldier and its significant that while denying he was seeking military command he was the only one to turn up to the meeting of the Virginia legislature which appointed him already dressed in uniform. Much is made of the fact he was disappointed by the refusal of the British Army to grant him a regular commission, when the fact of the matter is that the Army was not in the habit of giving permanent commissions as colonels to militia officers, whether they were Americans or not. If he wanted that rank he had to start at the bottom and work up just like everybody else.
A good example is the New York aristocrat Staats Long Morris who started off as an ensign in an independent company and spent his career climbing up through successive appointments to die a lieutenant general.
In 1775 Rogers unquestionably had a much higher fighting reputation than Washington and he had earned his rank the hard way, and while Washington did command Virginia militia on the Ohio frontier (with rather less success) he was as qualfied for proper military command as Harlan Sanders.
(lifts coat off peg and walks softly towards the door...)
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Post by garyzaboly on Apr 25, 2010 14:07:01 GMT -5
While Rogers has been an interest of mine, I haven't really studied the topic very well. Gary, you may remember, I told you that John Stark is an ancestor of mine, and so I tend to remember anything I read about him. What you've been discussing reminded me of something I read in John Ross's book War on the Run. Ross quoted from an 1831 biography of Stark that apparentally Stark said he "was of the opinion that [Rogers] would have proved a true man to his native country; had not suspicions been entertained of his designs. He was denounced as a Tory before he avowed his principles. Washington considered him a British agent and as such prohibited his entering the camp." Ross goes on to say that Stark was known for his "brutal honesty" and quotes again from the 1831 biography, that when Stark's brother who had joined the Loyalist New Hampshire Volunteers died when he was thrown from a horse that it "was the best thing William ever did in his life." If Stark said that about his own brother, it would seem that his assessment of Rogers was probably an honest one and not colored by friendship. Gary, while, I'm not sure, it seems to me that Rogers was probably better known in America at the beginning of the Revolution as a military hero than Washington. Do you think Washington's actions against Rogers as Rogers was supposedly going to Philidelphia to seek a commison from Congress were personally motivated? Wolf, Yes, John Stark was always brutally honest. When news came of St. Clair's defeat (in his old age), Stark said something along the line of, "What did you expect with two-dollar men?" Those quotes from Stark I'd also put into my own bio of Rogers some six years ago, for they are very plain. Rogers apparently felt adrift in America in 1776, having no interest in fighting anyone---he was one of the roughly one-third of the colonial population that wanted to remain neutral. Washington was given reports of his movements throughout New England---mostly to see his wife or beg for money from old friends, or seek some kind of employment---and suspected him of spying. Rogers, apparently desperate, was actually on his way to the Continental Congress to offer his services, but Washington disbelieved it and ordered his arrest. He escaped from jail in Philadelphia and fled to Howe's camp on Long Island. Next to Benjamin Franklin, and to a lesser degree, young Washington, Robert Rogers was thebiggest celebrity of the colonies from 1756 to about 1766. Having Stark in your lineage is a definite plus! I know another Stark descendant, her last name Stark in fact.
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Post by Herb on Apr 25, 2010 18:02:10 GMT -5
Those quotes from Stark I'd also put into my own bio of Rogers some six years ago, By the time I found out you had written that book it had already sold out its initial run. Any chance of a new printing?
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Post by garyzaboly on Apr 27, 2010 12:24:58 GMT -5
Those quotes from Stark I'd also put into my own bio of Rogers some six years ago, By the time I found out you had written that book it had already sold out its initial run. Any chance of a new printing? Wolf, That's out of my hands, but there's sometimes a copy available on Ebay for a more reasonable price...I've seen some priced as low as $90. Others for $250.00. I told them to print with cheaper paper!
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