Who is the Father of the Blues?

[sloanrodgers]

A few old bluesmen have been touted as the Father of the Blues or the originator of the musical form
in the early 1900s. If you blues fans were to bestow this great honor on a single person of that time,
who would you pick and why?

[Paul Sylvain]

Honestly, the blues was born out of the Slave Days (IMO) and, as such, evolved into a truly American breed of music, long before there was a way to record it.

To answer your question, there certainly were blues singers and pickers long before Robert Johnson, but to me Robert Johnson remains such a huge influence on the blues. He was ahead of his time and had a unique style of playing guitar. And so many of his songs are still being played by the likes of Clapton and myself. The legend of the crossroads and his deal with the devil live on.

Considering his catalog of recorded music was gleaned from a couple of days in hotel rooms in San Antonio and Dallas, yet folks continue to discover and interpret those songs speak volumes about his musicianship and artistry.

For me, Robert Johnson gets my vote for "Father of the Blues."

Paul

[TRK]

W.C. Handy styled himself "The Father of the Blues," and he has about as much claim to the honor as anybody. The musical form later called the blues was in existence for at least 30 years before Handy claimed to have latched onto the idea in 1903 while listening to a man at a railroad siding play slide guitar with a knife and singing a song along to a blues progression. The 1-IV-V chord progression we know as "blues" had been a staple of jazz music for a while, but what struck Handy was hearing somebody sing along to that progression in a vernacular, "folk" voice.

I appreciate the role of Handy. If I were to name a "Father of the Blues" based on the person who set the mold for the blues as we know it today, I'd almost be inclined to vote for Charley Patton. I view Robert Johnson as one of the paramount figures of the blues--a pure giant, but by no means an originator of the form. Charley Patton laid down the law for an awful lot of Blues singers/players from the 1920s to the present.

Having said all that, my vote for the Father of the Blues is an anonymous field worker in the deep South just after the Civil War who, while chopping cotton or doing other bull work, or just winding down after a hard day in the hot sun, would ease himself by singing a folk-based refrain about his troubled mind, or the boss who did him dirt, or his low-down mean woman, all to that I-IV-V chord progression that now forms one of the staples of American music, be it the blues, jazz, rock, country, or folk.

[Jim Boylston]

I'd have to vote for Charley Patton too, although Henry Thomas came before him (and I've even seen speculation that Thomas may have been the musician that Handy heard at the railroad station). I like Thomas's recordings (Canned Heat made liberal use of his "Bull Doze Blues" in their recording "Going Up the Country"), but they're closer to the songster tradition than blues as we tend to think of blues. Patton's recordings, on the other hand, show a direct link to Robert Johnson, Muddy and most everyone that came after. They are powerful stuff.
Jim

[Allen Wiener]

Jan 13, 2010 17:00:42 GMT -5 TRK said:

Having said all that, my vote for the Father of the Blues is an anonymous field worker in the deep South just after the Civil War who, while chopping cotton or doing other bull work, or just winding down after a hard day in the hot sun, would ease himself by singing a folk-based refrain about his troubled mind, or the boss who did him dirt, or his low-down mean woman, all to that I-IV-V chord progression that now forms one of the staples of American music, be it the blues, jazz, rock, country, or folk.

I go along with that, Tom. Blues is a form of American folk music, in the sense that it rose up from everyday people who created it out of their own life experiences. I think I once heard Pete Seeger say that all music was folk music of a sort, or at least came from something that could be called folk music.

Allen

[sloanrodgers]

I've often read that The Blues are an amalgamation of several musical forms and can be traced back to African spirituals, minstrels,
work songs and more primitive music. I've even heard ancient African tribal chants that sound vaguely like The Blues. I really didn't want to get into the vague, unrecorded and unwritten era of The Blues, but understand why some would. Maybe I should have said
the Father of the Modern Blues. There seems to be a time period between the 1890s and the early 1900s when the various African forms coalesced with Scotch-Irish ditties/ gospels to create The Blues we love today. This musical stew seems to have been more prominent about midwestern Mississippi and especially at Dockery Plantation near Ruleville. I would agree more with Dockery tenant
and bluesman Charlie Patton as the Father of the Blues over W. C. Handy. In my humble opinion Handy's music seems too polished
and orchestral for true hard-luck Blues. Hands down, I consider Johnson the King of the Blues, but not the father of the form.

[Allen Wiener]

Nick Toches has an interesting take on this in "The Country Roots of Rock & Roll." He points out instances where black artists actually picked up stuff from white country & western artists, such as Hank Williams. But I believe he is talking about a much later period. I wonder where Jimmie Rodgers would rank in all this; he comes from a fairly early era.

Allen

[Jim Boylston]

If we're talking about recorded blues, Henry Thomas's stuff was pretty early, and Patton is first generation. Rodgers was early, but not before Thomas.

Country and blues had a lot of cross pollination, even in the early days. There are a lot of songs that are standards with both traditions (think, "Sitting on Top of the World," for example. A big song for the Mississippi Sheiks, and a country and bluegrass standard as well). All those guys were borrowing from each other. The Harry Smith Anthology of American Folk Music does a good job of pointing out the similarities between early blues and country music.

And speaking of blending genres, Jimmie Rodgers recorded some sides with Louis Armstrong.

Jim

[marklemon]

The blues has its roots in the old Negro spirituals of the antebellum, and post-bellum era. At some period in this time frame, the blues, or a very early form of it, branched off and morphed from spiritual music into its own, distinctive style. But I suspect that, like Sloan, there may be an even earlier origin with African tribal chants.
Crowning a "modern" king of the blues is going to be nearly impossible, I'm thinking, due to the great amount of cross-pollination of vocal and musical stylings. That's a hard one....

[sloanrodgers]

Jan 13, 2010 17:38:38 GMT -5 Jim Boylston said:

I'd have to vote for Charley Patton too, although Henry Thomas came before him (and I've even seen speculation that Thomas may have been the musician that Handy heard at the railroad station).

I've heard this speculation about Patton's friend and Blues mentor Henry Sloan, but not Thomas.

[Allen Wiener]

Trying to nail this down reminds me of endless discussions about who the first rock & roll artist was, or what the first rock & roll record was. I think Dave Marsh even wrote an interesting book on this called "What Was the First Rock and Roll Record?" Because so many styles were bleeding into each other, it's hard to say for sure.

[bobdurham]

Blind Lemon Jefferson was one of the most influential blues guitarists. His style was almost impossible to duplicate but he recorded many sides and was extremely popular all over the country. Most of recorded early guitarists' records were only sold locally -- there were relatively few known nationally. Other influential guitarists -- Charley Patton, Lonnie Johnson, Blind Blake, Blind Boy Fuller. Any of these five could be termed fathers of the modern guitar blues -- all recorded a substantial number of records and were influential to other blues artists.

[sloanrodgers]

Well it appears that Charley Patton is the favorite, then W.C. Handy, Robert Johnson and an annonymous 19th Century fieldhand
with one vote each. Little is known about Patton's formative years near Bolton and later at Dockery Farm. During this time period
Patton was heavily influenced by an older Dockery tenant and bluesman named Henry Sloan. I might be a bit biased, but it seems
to me that Sloan has more of a claim as the Father of the Blues than self-promoting musicians like Handy and Jelly Roll Morton.

Henry Sloan Bio
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Sloan

An Interesting Article on The Blues
www.kansashistory.us/oconnorblues.html

[Paul Sylvain]

I think the biggest problem is agreeing on a definition and on what context "father of the Blues" is. I've heard so many different claims as to what was the first "rock 'n' roll" song or record, I lost count. It's kind of the same argument here. It truly isn't one man (or woman). It didn't just "happen" overnight. Blues as we know it evolved over a period of time -- and anyone at any time during that long evolution could make a claim to being the daddy of the blues. It just isn't so. I guess that's why I looked at it from a point of influence more than who might have been the first blues dude. And even that whole rock 'n' roll debate boils down to another music form born from the blues.

The answer to the question posed above truly is an individual one.

Paul

[Jim Boylston]

Good point, Paul. If we're just considering the figure most influential to modern blues (say, from Chicago blues in the 40s and 50s til today), I'd probably agree that it's Robert Johnson.
The Johnson catalog is the cornerstone of most blues setlists even now. Between Robert Johnson and Willie Dixon, blues songwriting is just about covered.
Jim