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Post by Kevin Young on Oct 26, 2009 9:40:36 GMT -5
I always liked Ben-got to hold the bullett that killed him which is at the Barker/Center for History in America.
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Post by TRK on Oct 26, 2009 9:57:22 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of his scout to Encarnacion just before the Battle of Buena Vista. That took some nerves of steel to practically ride into Santa Anna's encampment and scope out the size of the force. And it saved Taylor's army from getting annihilated at Agua Nueva, one of the stupidest picks for a defensive location ever.
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Post by Kevin Young on Oct 26, 2009 11:50:13 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of his scout to Encarnacion just before the Battle of Buena Vista. That took some nerves of steel to practically ride into Santa Anna's encampment and scope out the size of the force. And it saved Taylor's army from getting annihilated at Agua Nueva, one of the stupidest picks for a defensive location ever. I agree-it is one of his finest moments and cerainly one of the great stories from the Mexican War. |
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Post by TRK on Oct 26, 2009 14:02:51 GMT -5
A true story written by one of McCulloch's noncoms shortly after Buena Vista: McCulloch rides into Saltillo and goes into the American House, run by the famed camp follower, Sarah Borginnis/Bourdette (a.k.a. "The Great Western). Sarah sees Ben, figures him for a teamster because of his garb, and is about to throw him out when somebody tells her who it is. She relents, lets Ben gamble at monte all night, and early the next morning, the same noncom comes into the joint and sees Ben "arranging a shawl" around Sarah's shoulders <snicker, snicker>.
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Post by Kevin Young on Oct 26, 2009 14:38:41 GMT -5
Good one!
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Post by mustanggray on Oct 29, 2009 12:05:16 GMT -5
hmm... not sure I would dig arranging a shawl around the Great Western's shoulders what with all the men she'd taken on. Cool story though, tells you something about Ben's look if she mistook him for a teamster!
I still think Hays rates up top on my list but of course I've got a special place reserved for Mustang Gray. Maybe not the most exemplary model of a ranger but an effective one if nothing else!
Mexico must have been the place to be for a ranger with all the scouts and fights they were involved in.
SMc
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Post by Kevin Young on Oct 29, 2009 13:31:42 GMT -5
hmm... not sure I would dig arranging a shawl around the Great Western's shoulders what with all the men she'd taken on. Cool story though, tells you something about Ben's look if she mistook him for a teamster! I still think Hays rates up top on my list but of course I've got a special place reserved for Mustang Gray. Maybe not the most exemplary model of a ranger but an effective one if nothing else! Mexico must have been the place to be for a ranger with all the scouts and fights they were involved in. SMc Mustang Gray-so mean the Rio Grande move itself from being next to his grave...the man who inspired the curse of Goliad... And he has a great song in his honor (and a shop in La Villita!) |
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Post by sloanrodgers on Oct 29, 2009 22:07:12 GMT -5
Initially Hays, McCulloch, Walker, Gray, etc. etc. were more famous than Bigfoot Wallace, but in the end, Bigfoot
smoked them in the ranger popularity contest. I think Bigfoot did this by exuding a larger-than-life-persona in his
old age, outliving all contenders and staying in Texas to the end of his days. Gen. Houston and the Alamo trinity
are the only Texas characters to reach his folkhero stature, but none were rangers.
The Great Western was another one of those people that stood out in crowd. She was reportedly over 6 ft. tall,
buxom and beautiful in her prime. John S. "Rip" Ford said: "She could whip any man, fair fight or foul, could shoot
a pistol better than anyone in the region, and at black jack, could outplay (or out cheat)the slickest professional
gambler. " Bigfoot may have run into her during the Mexican War, but almost certainly met The Great Western in
El Paso while he was driving the stage and she was running a saloon - bordello. I don't know if Ol' Bigfoot did any
shawl adjusting on those broad Bowman shoulders, but it's possible ;D
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Post by mustanggray on Oct 30, 2009 10:52:44 GMT -5
Mustang Gray, John Glanton and Greasy Rube are all pretty colorful characters that were rangers, or were associated with rangers. Sam Walker, Ben McCulloch, RIP Ford and others were more upright examples of the trade. But folkhero or no, Hays beats Bigfoot hands down in my book. Hays was key to making the rangers what they were. He was the epitome of a frontier leader and at the time was known across the Republic as well as, or better than some of the big names historians toss about today.
Despite the rough, dangerous and oft times short life of a ranger during the ROT/MAW years I would have signed on and ridden with men like those mentioned above had I been around at that time... what an adventurous life for a young man(especially when compared to the alternatives!)!!!
SMc
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Post by mustanggray on Oct 30, 2009 10:53:54 GMT -5
Hey Rod... if Bigfoot smoked Hays and the others, why didn't they just make a documentary on him instead of Hays??? ;D
SMc
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Post by TRK on Oct 30, 2009 11:42:32 GMT -5
Say, Scott, wasn't it Sam Chamberlain who wrote in My Confessionabout Greasy Rube executing a bunch of Mexican guerrillas captured on the Monterrey-Camargo road? I just tried to look him up in the TSHA edition of the book but couldn't find the reference. I wonder if Greasy Rube has any basis in fact other than one of old Sam's numerous flights of fancy? I've delved pretty deeply into many of Chamberlain's claims, and tend to take what he writes with a heavy dose of salt. (Not that he wasn't spot-on or very close with his facts at least some of the time.) I'm not calling old Sam a liar on this one; just wondering.
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Post by mustanggray on Oct 30, 2009 12:52:58 GMT -5
I tried to hunt down Rube and came up empty handed. Closest I came name wise was a Ruben Holbein(who I know for some reason but can't remember right now). I can't say whether or not Rube was an in the flesh character or a flight of fancy, either way he made Sam's story a bit more interesting(as if it weren't interesting enough already!).
SMc
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Post by sloanrodgers on Oct 31, 2009 5:55:35 GMT -5
But folkhero or no, Hays beats Bigfoot hands down in my book. Hays was key to making the rangers what they were. He was the epitome of a frontier leader and at the time was known across the Republic as well as, or better than some of the big names historians toss about today. Well, I think you're a little biased, while I am not. I totally agree that Jack Hays was the most influential Texas ranger and the model for a ranger captain, but this isn't the same as fame. Bigfoot Wallace served less time as a ranger and wasn't known as the phenomenal leader that Hays was, but I think Bigfoot eventually gained more fame and name recognition. The names of individual Texas rangers are not generally known to folks unfamiliar or uninterested with ranger history, but Bigfoot has slipped this boundary as a Texas and American hero. During his lifetime, he was the subject of well known biographies (reprinted several times), later biographies, poems, novels children's books, newspaper, magazine and internet articles. Bigfoot was even the star of a series of dime novels, distributed nationally during the 1880s. To Bigfoot's credit, he had 2 towns, one World War II ship, 2 rock bands and numerous babies named after him. A small museum in Bigfoot, TX. also preserves his memory. Although Jack Hays has a Texas county named after him and a new statue in front of the Hays County Courthouse, he seems to come up a bit short so far as notoriety, compared to Bigfoot. I certainly believe he deserves a lot more.  |
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Post by sloanrodgers on Oct 31, 2009 6:31:16 GMT -5
Hey Rod... if Bigfoot smoked Hays and the others, why didn't they just make a documentary on him instead of Hays??? ;D SMc I thought Richard should have developed the whole documentary around the old geezer playing Bigfoot Wallace, but I guess the Hays County Historical Society wouldn't have funded it. This was actually the fourth appearance of Bigfoot on film and I expect there will be more. I was approached a few years ago by someone that wanted to create a documentary on Bigfoot, but it turned out to be the idea of another Bigfoot fan that didn't go anywhere and I never heard from him again.  |
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Post by mustanggray on Oct 31, 2009 22:05:31 GMT -5
Sloan... that was supposed to be a documentary about THE Bigfoot, not Bigfoot the ranger! ;D SO what rock bands were named after him... and if this is getting to far off topic we can move it to another more appropriate folder.
SMc
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