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Post by Rich Curilla on Nov 28, 2010 23:43:06 GMT -5
I've certainly got no ax to grind and want everybody possible to see Alamo: The Price of Freedom, but sometimes if you keep something like that exclusive, it becomes much more meaningful to people when they do see it. However, I doubt if that thought enters anybody's mind at this point. It's just a function of business.
The movie was indeed made as a special project for a special venue. Kevin will have to ride gain on my comments, since he was in the middle of it for years, but -- as I understand it -- the film production and the theater construction were one budget of $6-million. The marketing strength of the film was to be that it would be on the doorstep of the Alamo shrine and have the support (perhaps just off the record) of the DRT. The concept was sort of like the Colonial Williamsburg docudrama which still runs (the last I heard) at their visitors center in Williamsburg, VA. -- and has become one of the highest grossing films of all times, having run daily since 1957 (I think).
Price of Freedom was co-sponsored by Luby's Cafeteria (a San Antonio business) who also had (have?) say in the plan. In the first years of its run, the movie was indeed made available to other Imax theaters (perhaps still is). It ran at the Smithsonian Imax as well as several others around the country. An issue became that other theaters wanted a shorter version to enable easier turn-around of people (and concessions) in one hour. The owners were (I believe) unwilling to chop it up -- to their credit -- so they were not able to market it to other theaters. I'm sure that the death of producer-writer George McAllister (whose dream it was) also changed marketing options.
Again, this is simply how I understand the story and would appreciate understanding it better or differently.
My own view of why it has never been committed to DVD is that it would loose all effectiveness. Framing alone is totally unlike a theatrical movie. The center of the scene is in the bottom half of the Imax image and, because of the gigantic size of the screen, close-ups of talent are impossible. Thus your TV would have tiny people at the bottome of the screen talking to each other. I exaggerate a bit to make a point, but not much. Point is, it was not formated in the least way for TV screens and all quality other than its appeal to reenactors and buffs would, IMO, disappear on a video.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Nov 29, 2010 9:58:17 GMT -5
One point - the Williamsburg film ("Williamsburg: Story of a Patriot," starring Jack Lord) has been out on DVD for years and was even issued in a fully restored version not long ago (members of Colonial Williamsburg got a free copy). That has not diminished attendance at the theaters in the Visitors Center one bit, where it is still shown non-stop - still free of charge the last time I was there.
I find the treatment of POF mind-boggling. No one comes to San Antonio to see that film; they might go to see it while there, especially if they visit the Alamo, as most people do. I rarely miss a film connected with a historical site and, if I think they are well done, can usually buy a copy. Showing POF in IMAX theaters around the country, or selling it on video, is not going to diminish attendance or ruin the experience at the San Antonio IMAX.
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Post by Kevin Young on Nov 29, 2010 10:34:24 GMT -5
Actually, a cut version of APF was shown at seveal IMAX theatres across the country...because they wanted a shorter show time (more turn around) and because they felt as science museums and such (Remember, back then IMAX was not as commerical and mainstream as it is today) the "Violence" was to much for their auidences...The concept was while the short version would be shown at those theatres, only the 48 version would be shown at San Antonio...that changed over time.
The development of the San Antonio IMAX was indeeded based on a concept of the Colonial Williamsburg presentation---and if I remember, it was Keith Merrill who convienced George to consider the IMAX format for APF...Doug was the chief finnancial officer and was pretty much the person who secured the rest of the funding, including Luby's and Pace. Some of you will remember that when the place first open, it was showing just APF with one other IMAX film in rotation...and no food and drink were allowed in the theatre itself...Concessions being a big part of revenue, that changed....and then the 70MM program of main stream films at night started. As George's health got worse, Doug's role got bigger. Some of you remember that the gift shop at first only featured APF custon items-T-Shirts, Posters, George's two books, and of course, Pace Gift Sets!
When I worked for them (8 years) following working on APF, a lot of changes took place. In regards to direct tie ins for the film, Doug did support and have me develop some Post Cards from the film, the picture book (with help from Wally Chariton) and the soundtrack....but anythought about releasing the film itself on VHS was not considered...main reason that I was always told was that they did not want to effect the attendnance at the theatre...I do remember having a brief converstation with Keith about it and he had mixed emotions--many of them because he felt that the IMAX format of this particular film would not transfer as well...the lack of close-ups, the staging and such (the battle scenes would almost all be deep background).
Doug Beach is the man in charge, and it all boils down to what Doug feels is the best for the product and the experience I guess.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Nov 29, 2010 12:00:05 GMT -5
Thanks Kevin! That's a lot of interesting background and it lends a lot more insight into the history of the film than I was aware of. I do have both the book and soundtrack. They might want to rethink the home video release, given the new flat screen, widescreen, hi def, etc., technologies.
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Post by sloanrodgers on Nov 29, 2010 20:18:39 GMT -5
I never even heard of this movie until I saw it a few years ago while attending the Alamo Symposium. I was pleasantly surprised by the film and I think it deserves more exposure than the occasional showing at an IMAX theater.
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Post by martyb on Nov 29, 2010 23:26:25 GMT -5
Kevin,
Is that you in the middle of the "Iwo" shot?
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Post by Kevin Young on Nov 30, 2010 10:17:59 GMT -5
Kevin, Is that you in the middle of the "Iwo" shot? Nope=of camera telling Ray Herbeck that it looks to much like Iwo. Then again George M. was an ex Marine...
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Post by Kevin Young on Dec 2, 2010 19:37:47 GMT -5
Well, thanks to Marty's keen eye...there is a trailer for APF on youtube. www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Uu4iwCvVrEand watching it begs the question that apparently a DVD version would not be that bad...
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Post by Paul Sylvain on Dec 6, 2010 18:59:25 GMT -5
The thing that has always impressed me is how the story was told (and pretty darn good at that) in the span of 40 minutes. I think it's the only film I've seen where Travis takes that ring of his, puts it in a string and takes it to Dickenson's wife and daughter.
The thing is that a film of this length, but which does a commendable job of telling the story, would be ideal for use in the classroom. What better way to enliven the minds and spark an interest in the subject to the folks -- school kids -- who will one day carry the torch after we pass on?
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Post by Rich Curilla on Dec 7, 2010 2:19:27 GMT -5
Thanks Kevin. That certainly rounds out my understanding. I do see the possibility of the film working on HDTV if viewed on a huge flat-screen. It would still have to be reformatted -- at least in select scenes -- simply due to what people are used to seeing on that HDTV screen. And I think the reformatting might greatly harm its effect. But I'd certainly buy one.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Dec 7, 2010 2:28:02 GMT -5
Allen, thanks for updating my knowledge of the Williamsburg film. I have seen it twice in Williamsburg -- once in 1958 as a kid with my folks and once in the late seventies under my own steam. The only other time was when I borrowed a 16 mm. print of it from the Penn State A-V Services Library. I never heard that it was available on video or DVD.
I also didn't remember that it was free. What confused me perhaps was the article about it that I read. Perhap they said that IF it had been charging admission, it would now be the highest grossing movie in film history. That makes more sense actually.
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Post by Kevin Young on Dec 7, 2010 8:33:27 GMT -5
Thanks Kevin. That certainly rounds out my understanding. I do see the possibility of the film working on HDTV if viewed on a huge flat-screen. It would still have to be reformatted -- at least in select scenes -- simply due to what people are used to seeing on that HDTV screen. And I think the reformatting might greatly harm its effect. But I'd certainly buy one. I just caught a tv showing of the Rolling Stones Imax film (which we showed at SA)...it looked just great.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Dec 7, 2010 10:45:35 GMT -5
Rich - They may be charging for the Williamsburg film now by requiring you to buy one of the passes before entering the theater. I don't know that for sure as I have not been down there in a while. When I first started going in the early 70s it was a very inexpensive and comparatively low key experience. Tickets were good for visiting 10 or 12 historic buildings and many did not require the ticket. You could keep the ticket forever and continue using it on each visit until all the boxes were punched. Now it's far more expensive and you need tickets for everything. However, the programs have been greatly expanded. There is far more reenactment everywhere and special presentations with actors at night in the Capitol, Governor's Palace, the jail, etc. These cost extra but I find them worth the additional cost. It's way more commercial than it was years ago, but still a worthwhile experience. Once I'm in the Colonial area, even on a very busy day, I still get caught up in the history and enjoy visiting the various buildings and watching demonstrations, including firearms and cannon at the Magazine, one of my favorite spots.
As to the film, I think the Alamo would benefit from a visitors orientation facility of some kind where POF could be shown in the same way that "Williamsburg: Story of a Patriot" is. I still remember watching it on my first visit and getting so much from that film alone. It was a great way to start off and I think POF could do the same for Alamo visitors.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Dec 7, 2010 15:47:47 GMT -5
As to the film, I think the Alamo would benefit from a visitors orientation facility of some kind where POF could be shown in the same way that "Williamsburg: Story of a Patriot" is. I still remember watching it on my first visit and getting so much from that film alone. It was a great way to start off and I think POF could do the same for Alamo visitors. At Alamo Village, I couldn't help but promote the Imax film with folks who got to us before San Antonio. What an awesome opportunity for those who knew: Alamo Village, Alamo: The Price of Freedom, Mark Lemon's model.... and then the real Alamo. I even had illusions of grandeur some years ago of setting up a bus tour (to be advertised in Smithsonian) for "Texas' Three Alamos." Take them to the Alamo, then the Waynamo and then the Corenblithamo, thus showing them history and how two completely different movies for likewise different ages designed their sets -- and why they were all different. Too bad Dripping Springs is now beyond reasonable repair. But there is still lots of life left in the Waynamo, if we can overcome the setbacks.
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Post by Paul Sylvain on Dec 10, 2010 15:33:40 GMT -5
As to the film, I think the Alamo would benefit from a visitors orientation facility of some kind where POF could be shown in the same way that "Williamsburg: Story of a Patriot" is. I still remember watching it on my first visit and getting so much from that film alone. It was a great way to start off and I think POF could do the same for Alamo visitors. At Alamo Village, I couldn't help but promote the Imax film with folks who got to us before San Antonio. What an awesome opportunity for those who knew: Alamo Village, Alamo: The Price of Freedom, Mark Lemon's model.... and then the real Alamo. I even had illusions of grandeur some years ago of setting up a bus tour (to be advertised in Smithsonian) for "Texas' Three Alamos." Take them to the Alamo, then the Waynamo and then the Corenblithamo, thus showing them history and how two completely different movies for likewise different ages designed their sets -- and why they were all different. Too bad Dripping Springs is now beyond reasonable repair. But there is still lots of life left in the Waynamo, if we can overcome the setbacks. I like the "Three Alamos" idea, although from what I heard Dripping Springs is no long an option. Alamo Village, however, is a real treasure and hopefully it will not be left to crumble. We can only hope someone will step in and keep it going.
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