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Post by valerobowie on Jul 19, 2009 7:28:02 GMT -5
i have heard a lot about the Musso bowie knife and it's origins but does anyone know it's whole story like where it was found and things of that nature.-thanks-Valerobowie
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Post by bmoses on Jul 22, 2009 8:03:00 GMT -5
It now seems likely that a version of the Musso/Black Bowie Knife was made for Bowie by Arkansas knife maker James Black. The problem has been a general lack of information about Black as well as a number of controversies regarding the facts about this man. An excellent and detailed summary of the issues/arguments over Black’s role in the origin of the knife can be found in an article written by Bill Worthen of the Historic Arkansas Museum, “James Black:Revisited” www.historicarkansas.org/pdf/RevisitingBlackQuestion.pdf. |
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Post by Herb on Jul 22, 2009 10:20:52 GMT -5
A couple of us have heard the story a few times, once by Joe Musso, and a couple of other times by people that are also true Bowie Knife experts. Having received the story orally, and not having anything handy written down to reference, I'm not comfortable relating what I "think" I remember.
I think Jack Edmondson gave me an article that he wrote a few years back, and as I recall it contained info on the Musso and Moore Bowies. I'll look to see if I can find it.
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Post by Kevin Young on Jul 22, 2009 12:58:36 GMT -5
A couple of us have heard the story a few times, once by Joe Musso, and a couple of other times by people that are also true Bowie Knife experts. Having received the story orally, and not having anything handy written down to reference, I'm not comfortable relating what I "think" I remember. I think Jack Edmondson gave me an article that he wrote a few years back, and as I recall it contained info on the Musso and Moore Bowies. I'll look to see if I can find it. That appeared in one of the Dixie Gun Works Annual Magazines: it was an excellent article. |
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Post by Allen Wiener on Jul 22, 2009 13:48:28 GMT -5
Joe Musso did an article on his knife for "Alamo Journal" some years back; I'll try to dig that out. Maybe someone else knows which issue it was in. Slick color cover photos of the knife appeared on at least 2 issues of "Alamo Journal."
AW
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Post by Allen Wiener on Jul 22, 2009 20:12:52 GMT -5
The issue of "Alamo Journal" is December 1992 (#84). The article is "A Bowie Knife" by Joseph Musso. Back issues may still be available.
AW
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Post by sloanrodgers on Oct 17, 2011 22:44:11 GMT -5
I'm glad I ran stumbled across this old post/ link today. This article is a good dissection of the James Black history/ legend as it relates to the Bowie Knife origin. It pretty much confirms my opinion that Black made a particular style of coffin-handled, silver-mounted Bowie and that the classic (ala Hollywood knives from various movies) knife came years later. Thanks for posting Bruce and rest in peace. |
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johnk
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Post by johnk on Oct 19, 2011 9:37:12 GMT -5
i have heard a lot about the Musso bowie knife and it's origins but does anyone know it's whole story like where it was found and things of that nature.-thanks-Valerobowie Hi I have read many articles on the Bowie knife over the years...In my opinion the brass backed Bowie is a much later invention (possibly 1950s). As much as it looks like it what a Bowie knife should be........I think the actual knife Jim Bowie carried and used was a slender version of a butchers knife.I own a classic shaped Bowie 15 ins long which looks nice but dont beleive it looks anything like the original Bowie. I am always prepared to listen to experts you know far more then me |
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Post by Allen Wiener on Oct 19, 2011 16:16:38 GMT -5
The only one I've seen that seems to have some Bowie-era provenance is the Searles knife, since Rezin had several made as gifts and one resides in the Alamo. That may have been a fancier version of an earlier knife.
Do we know for a fact that Bowie actually carried a knife as a matter of routine? If he had a preference for knives, I think he actually had more than one, negating the idea of a single "Bowie Knife." that can be related to himself.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Oct 19, 2011 23:07:24 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of many "original" Bowie Knives. I think someone like Bowie would continually be trying to better the one he had before. There's a new blacksmith within a hundred miles. Let's see if he can take this one and make it better. Didn't Black say (or didn't tradition have him say) that he made one according to Bowie's specs but made a second with his own additional features and gave Bowie his choice when he returned? Bowie took the Black knife. Black kept the one he made to Bowie's specs. Facts aside, I think this story reveals a truth about how they thought then. If Caiaphas K. Ham said that the knife now in the Alamo was given to him by Jim Bowie, I have no reason to doubt it. I would think Bowie would hand his discards to whomever idolized him -- Ham, Madam Candalaria....
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Post by Allen Wiener on Oct 20, 2011 11:54:14 GMT -5
I think that's probably as close to the truth as we'll get, Rich. I wonder if and/or what kind of knife Bowie had at the Alamo and if it differed significantly from knives carried by other Texians. Knives must have been pretty standard equipment if you were heading off to war or for a hunt.
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johnk
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Post by johnk on Oct 22, 2011 1:45:53 GMT -5
I read many articles on the Bowie Knife .....It has developed into to the present shape over the years. I have a reference book on Bowies going back to the Alamo period plus 20 years and would be happy to email to any member who wishes to see them........The Bowie knife that Jim carried is most likely to have been an elongated form of butchers knife which I can send pics to any members........The brass back (Musso ) Bowie is a much later invention (1950s).......and is what we would like to have imagined a Bowie to look like.......Joe Musso must hate me as I have already questioned the portrait of Jim Bowie in another post.!
The Bowie knife shown in 2004 film The Alamo.........wishful thinking
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Post by Allen Wiener on Oct 22, 2011 11:21:36 GMT -5
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Post by sloanrodgers on Oct 23, 2011 20:56:59 GMT -5
I read many articles on the Bowie Knife .....It has developed into to the present shape over the years. I have a reference book on Bowies going back to the Alamo period plus 20 years and would be happy to email to any member who wishes to see them........The Bowie knife that Jim carried is most likely to have been an elongated form of butchers knife which I can send pics to any members........The brass back (Musso ) Bowie is a much later invention (1950s).......and is what we would like to have imagined a Bowie to look like.......Joe Musso must hate me as I have already questioned the portrait of Jim Bowie in another post.! The Bowie knife shown in 2004 film The Alamo.........wishful thinking I don't believe we will ever know the exact dimensions of Jim Bowie's first namesake knife, but most of the old Louisiana sources consistently describe a large crude weapon that was crafted from an old file, which was supplied by Bowie. A crafty blacksmith or cutler usually makes a blank/ prototype before smarter entrepreneurs can steal his idea, so these stories have a ring of truth to me. It's too bad the original wasn't patented, but then there would be no mystery and little discussion on the Bowie Knife's origin. I don't think the first example was created in Arkansas by Mr. Black, but I have a tough 16 inch Ark N Saw Bowie with a file-like blade from Saw Mill Cutlery that gets the job done in camp. |
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johnk
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Post by johnk on Nov 7, 2011 12:06:37 GMT -5
I think the knife used by Bowie was more like ones in photo then the Musso Bowie.
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