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Post by lorinfriesen on Nov 17, 2008 13:32:55 GMT -5
I ask for everyones response to learn by survey for a later discussions, our perceptions, our understanding about the Siege of Bexar, and so here begins my survey. Please answer any one or all as you like. Thanks, Lorenzo
#1. Your best suggested book/s on or that include the Siege of Bexar?
#2. Rate from 1 to 10, lowest to highest, the level of importance for the Alamo's capture by the Texans?
#3. Your favorite/s or most important Siege volunteer/ fighter/ leader if any?
Other Comments?
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Post by TRK on Nov 17, 2008 14:27:05 GMT -5
I only have time to answer #1, but IMO the best book on the siege of Bexar isn't even a book: it's the online reference section on the siege at Sons of DeWitt Colony's website, and it has almost everything you need in one multi-page package: www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/dewitt.htmAlwyn Barr's small book on the siege is ok, but nowhere near all-inclusive.
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Post by elcolorado on Nov 17, 2008 17:25:28 GMT -5
Well, I was going to recommend Alwyn Barr's book but Tom is correct, the Dewitt website is better. I'm not sure if I can come up with 10 reasons for capturing the Alamo, but I'll share a few thoughts. 1 The capture of the Alamo gave the Texans a moral boost. 2 It caused Santa Anna to divide his attention and split his forces. 3 It gave the Texans a base of operations in the area. 4 The numerous cannon, weapons, and ammunition inside the Alamo. 5 It denied the Mexican Army a base of operations in Texas. 6-10 I can't come up with any more "good" reasons for capturing the Alamo. I'll have to give it some additional thought. Militarily speaking, the Texans should have cleaned the place out and moved all men and material somewhere east. As for my favorite volunteer - Crockett. However, I have a lot of admiration for Juan Seguin. Glenn
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Post by lorinfriesen on Nov 17, 2008 18:39:34 GMT -5
Sorry Glenn, I corrected my question, asking for you to rate the capture of the Alamo. Five reasons are a wealth of effort here, Thanks!
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Post by stuart on Nov 18, 2008 2:20:01 GMT -5
While Crockett might seem an obvious favourite he didn't actually take part in the siege :-)
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Post by elcolorado on Nov 18, 2008 10:02:31 GMT -5
Thanks Stuart for catching that error - wrong siege. Duh! OK, I obviously need to amend my choice for favorite siege volunteer. There are a number of courageous and deserving men to consider. I like Deaf Smith ignoring enemy fire to win the cannonball shooting contest.
I admire the pluck of Henry Karnes as he braved musket balls and canister to pry open a door to a houseful of soldados.
Milam is the one who stands out the most, to me. Without his leadership and resolve, the capture of Bexar and the Alamo might not have occurred - ever. So I have to give the nod to Ben Milam.
Glenn
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Post by stuart on Nov 18, 2008 14:49:06 GMT -5
Ah you mean the same Ben Milam who "was entirely directed by the Doctor (James Grant) who proposed calling for volunteers to attack Bexar through Milam" :-)
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Post by lorinfriesen on Nov 18, 2008 22:08:16 GMT -5
Ah you mean the same Ben Milam who "was entirely directed by the Doctor (James Grant) who proposed calling for volunteers to attack Bexar through Milam" :-) What am I missing?
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Post by stuart on Nov 19, 2008 1:41:24 GMT -5
Lots...
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Post by stuart on Nov 19, 2008 1:41:47 GMT -5
Here's an extract from my book:
So far as most of the remaining Texian militia were concerned, the long siege was now over and with few obvious regrets they struck their tents, loaded their baggage and started heading out the Gonzales road. The American volunteers on the other hand were angry and bewildered by the sudden collapse of the whole operation. Herman Ehrenberg wrote that with discontent growing; “Colonel Grant, formerly an officer in the Scottish Highlanders and afterwards a citizen of Mexico, induced Burleson to call a general assembly of the whole army.” Ehrenberg’s narrative, written long afterwards, is often distorted for dramatic effect, and it is uncertain whether he was describing the initial meeting that morning when Burleson announced that the army was to withdraw, or the later, decisive one. “Loud cries of disappointment broke out among the men,” he continued, “and Grant himself, our brave Scot, shared our bitter disappointment.” Since General Mexia and the survivors of his ill-fated expedition had only just reached the Brazos the day before, Grant, like everyone else at Bexar was as yet ignorant of their failure to take Tampico. From his viewpoint; if the army did withdraw now, the opportunity to co-operate with the Federalistas down in the interior might be irretrievably lost, and with it the war. While no other narrative suggests that he was directly responsible for calling the assembly which followed the announcement, Ehrenberg’s testimony shows that Grant was at the very least engaged in stirring up the volunteers’ anger and dismay and encouraging them to take some kind of positive action.
The first claim to have actually initiated that action was afterwards made by Captain William G. Cooke, who had succeeded Morris as commander of the 2nd Company of the New Orleans Greys. By his own account the camp was dissolving into anarchy when; “I returned to my company and addressed them in a few words to ascertain whether they would follow me into town even if we were not sustained by the balance of the troops. With a unanimous shout they answered in the affirmative. We were immediately joined by the other volunteers from the United States, commanded by Capt. Breeze and Peacock, and I then marched them up and down the lines calling on volunteers to unite with us. We succeeded in raising about 300. I then marched them to Head quarters and halted them, and proposed the name of Benjamin R. Milam as the leader in the attack. He was elected unanimously.”7
Unlike Ehrenberg, Cooke made no mention of Grant’s intervention, no doubt because by the time he made his own appeal the Scotsman had moved on to find the other key player in the drama; Ben Milam. The most detailed account of what happened next comes from the new Adjutant General, Frank Johnson, who claims, incidentally, to have been the lone dissenting voice from the decision to withdraw. Curiously enough Johnson is also alone in explicitly denying there was any disturbance in the camp. “About the middle of the afternoon,” he wrote “when most of the baggage wagons were loaded, and everything in readiness for the march on the next day, a Lieutenant of the Mexican army, a deserter, entered our camp, and was taken to General Burleson's quarters. He reported the defenses of the town weak, and that the place could be taken easily. After hearing his report, Colonel Johnson suggested to Colonel Milam to call for volunteers, that "now is the time." Most of the army had gathered at the headquarters of General Burleson. Milam called in a clear, loud voice; "Who will go with Old Ben Milam into San Antonio?"8
It was a famous moment indeed and but for the later defense of the Alamo it might have become the defining act of the Texan Revolution, but the two versions of the story appear quite different until Grant’s part in the proceedings is factored in. In the first place Milam’s own dramatic appearance at headquarters at that moment, supposedly on returning from a scout, may not have been quite as fortuitous as it is usually represented, and nor was his call to arms as spontaneous as legend portrays it. Not only did William Austin recall that Burleson actually gave Milam and Johnson permission to go out and ask for volunteers, but in April 1839, James Ogilvie had a long discussion with John Durst, the Nacogdoches Deputy who knew Grant in Coahuila. In a contemporaneous note of their conversation, Ogilvie wrote that Durst spoke of Grant “with the utmost feeling of kindness & praise – says that Milam was entirely directed by the Doctor who proposed calling for volunteers to attack Bexar through Milam – Dr Grant was the chief promoter of all great works.”9 If true, and given Grant’s long association with Milam there is absolutely no reason to doubt it, this means that the old filibuster, “directed by the Doctor” rather than by Johnson, strode out to issue his famous rallying cry, just as Cooke and the volunteers, urged on by their same “beloved Scot” came marching up in search of a leader.
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Post by lorinfriesen on Nov 19, 2008 10:31:43 GMT -5
Well said Stuart!
Now with this extract, one that you put so well by James Ogilive for Durst's recollection of Grant, this adds yet one more point of contention to my list concerning this December 4th day of the Siege of Bexar. I appologize for not knowing, tell me the name of your book please?
This was the most calamitous day within the ranks of the volunteer army on all accounts! This day was the cause for modern historian T. R. Fehrenbach to call Burleson a dolt, and for the over-the-top Houston apologist of his day, Henderson Yoakum to intimate throughout that Burleson had a long yellow streak and that he was even against the attack on Bexar!
I do know that the midnight hour on the morning of the 4th was the third planned storming of Bexar to be countermanded, twice under Austin's command and the latest under Burleson. The cause for these countermands was each the same, fears at the hour of attack that Cos knew their plans.
Whatever means Burleson set out to remedy this continual predicament within the volunteer army, all had been resolved by that days end. On the morning of the 5th, the Texans began their storming of Bexar with Burleson still as Commander in Chief while having Milam and Johnson leading the two lines of assault.
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Post by elcolorado on Nov 19, 2008 10:40:56 GMT -5
A very interesting take on the "Who will go with old Ben Milam..." story. I really have to get into your book, Stuart.
Milam may not have initiated the "on to Bexar" call, but at least he stepped up to the plate and volunteered to lead.
Glenn
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Post by Allen Wiener on Nov 19, 2008 23:11:47 GMT -5
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Post by lorinfriesen on Nov 20, 2008 9:30:10 GMT -5
Thanks AW,
Well Stuart, your book looks to be a must read. Milam, Johnson and Grant did seem to have a higher cause. Did any of these three purchase lands from Lorenzo De Zavala? I can imagine why Johnson was disappointed with General Burleson stopping at the completion of the Siege, Texas holding the Alamo with the removal the Mexican military, but the fighting was not complete for this Texas Land Company.
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Post by Jim Boylston on Nov 20, 2008 10:42:26 GMT -5
While we have many threads relating to books on the forum, we also have a lot of authors here. It occurs to me that it might be nice to have a board for authors and readers to interact. I'm adding "Alamo Authors" under our History section. Please don't limit your discussion to strictly Alamo books...anything related to the Alamo, Texas Rev, or personalities from the time period would be appropriate. This would also be the spot to discuss the writing/research process with our authors. Authors, feel free to promote your books and appearances on this board as well. I hope this will be an active area! Jim
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