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Post by dimbo33 on Dec 18, 2007 21:20:02 GMT -5
I would like to see us compile a list of interesting terminology from the Alamo period that may add the researchers translators and writers of today. Maybe someone that knows how to use this forum better than I can eventually organize them all alphabetically. Feel free to give Texan and Tejano terms as well. I will start with a few of my favorites (which of course tend to be Mexican army terms).
clavado--spiked;piezas clavados=spiked artillery pieces
llaves (llabes)--lockplate for a musket. Filisola noted that they threw many fusiles sin llaves in a creek.
piedras de chispa--flints, literally rocks of spark
rancho--mess for the army. I have found several instances were Mexican writers talked about eating rancho.
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Post by TRK on Dec 19, 2007 7:17:21 GMT -5
Gregg, a decade ago I and a colleague, the late Albert W. Haarmann, compiled for our own use a glossary of Spanish terms for a large number of esoteric items of Mexican military equipage of the first half of the nineteenth century. When I get a little more time, I'll dig out the glossary and start posting terms. And sure, I can work out a way to combine these terms into an alphabetical list.
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Post by tmdreb on Dec 19, 2007 20:40:17 GMT -5
Additionally, casaca corta is often used as the English "coatee" or a tailcoat with short tails. This is the style of military coats in the 1830's for the most part.
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Post by dimbo33 on Jan 4, 2008 23:16:14 GMT -5
adarme--unit of measurement of musket balls. One adarme=approximately 1/16 of an ounce. Andrade listed musket balls of 17 and 19 adarmes and rifle balls of 9 adarmes.
gastadores--I would like to ask the forum if this term is interchangeable with cazadores. I have used these terms as one in the same but I am not sure that is correct. I also am of the opinion that neither gastadores or cazadores is technically the same as engineers. Do you all agree with this line of thought?
botes de metralla--cans of canister
parada--reload or packet of cartridges. I estimate this was a packet of 8-10 paper cartridges tied together in a bundle. De la Pena wrote that each soldado at the Alamo was over supplied with ammunition. He wrote that each soldado had six paradas of cartridges. Perry mistranslated this as seven rounds each.
culatazos--blows with the butt of a musket or rifle
culebrinas--culverins
dias de San Jose--birthday--Portilla wrote that the officers gave Urrea the days of San Jose on the morning of March 19--Urrea's birthday.
bandera-- flag
bandolera--pennon
sacos á tierra--sandbags
cajones de cartuchos--cases of cartridges
instrumentos de zapa--entrenching tools
dispensa--latrine
chalán--canoe or crude raft
Correllitas-- a variant spelling of "correitas" or "correyitas," which Santamaria, Diccionario de Mejicanismos, gives as a name applied to the old presidial soldiers who used to adorn their leather-coated uniforms with leather fringes, akin to charro or western wear today. "Correita" is simply a diminutive form of "correa," a strip of leather
funda de morrion--helmet or shako cover
Stimbot de Vapor--steamboat
navajas--long knives about 1/2 vara in length. This is from a Mexican enlisted man's description of the Texans' arms at San Jacinto so he is likely referring to Bowie knives.
pistolas á la cinta--waist pistols?
bala rasa--solid shot cannon ball
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Post by TRK on Jan 5, 2008 8:36:06 GMT -5
No; cazadores were light infantry; gastadores were pioneers. Sometimes the term gastadores is used more generally to signify the troops--sappers/zapadores and pioneers--who did the grunt work under the direction of engineer officers.
re. parada de cartuchos, I've seen one reference, though later in the 19th century and in a dictionary of, I believe, Nicaraguan idioms, stating that this was specifically ten rounds.
Dias de San Jose: I believe this simply means that Urrea's birthday was on St. Joseph's/San Jose's saint's day.
pistolas a la cinta: wouldn't these have been called, in American usage, belt pistols?
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Post by TRK on Jan 5, 2008 11:57:09 GMT -5
That's interesting: I've seen a few cases where Europeans writing of the Spanish military in the last half of the 19th century used navaja to mean Bowie knife, but have never seen it applied to Bowie Knife in a Mexican/19th-century context. Dictionaries of the early 19th century generally define it as a folding or clasp knife, or a straight razor.
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Don't you mean banderola--pennon? Bandolera means a bandoleer or cross-belt.
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Post by dimbo33 on Jan 11, 2008 13:46:22 GMT -5
Thanks for the additional information. First of all I obviously messed up when I asked if Gastadores were the same as Cazadores. I meant to ask if they were the same as Zapadores. Would there be any difference in a Gastador and a Zapador?
It is interesting that you have a source stating that a parada is ten cartridges. We have been doing some extensive archeology at San Jacinto in the past few months and have found several concentrations of Mexican musket balls. These concentrations have been from 8-11 balls for the most part but we did find one with nearly 30. I would guess that this concentration was three paradas of balls.
I will go back and look up the Bandolera in the original--it is from Filisola's Analysis which should be out at the end of the month.
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Post by TRK on Jan 11, 2008 14:08:30 GMT -5
Would there be any difference in a Gastador and a Zapador? I believe a gastador would be essentially the same as a zapador. The former is usually defined as a pioneer; in the military of the time, a pioneer was equivalent to a sapper...or zapador.
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Post by dimbo33 on Jan 11, 2008 21:39:09 GMT -5
I checked Filisola's Analysis and you are correct--the term should be banderola--pennon
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Post by Herb on Jan 14, 2008 12:56:39 GMT -5
I don't know the Spanish, but I understand from a previous discussion, that each battlion had it's own squad of pioneers seperate and distinct from the sappers in the Zapadore Battalion.
Is this the difference or am I totally off base?
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Post by TRK on Jan 14, 2008 14:03:38 GMT -5
Wolfpack, you just hit the bullseye. Here's why: Mexican federal government, Decree no. 419, Sept. 1, 1824 (quote:) "Arreglo de la tropa de caballería del ejército. Article 5 (quote): "La plana mayor de cada regimiento, en todos tiempos, constará de un coronel, un teniente coronel mayor, dos comandantes de escuadron, un primer ayudante capitan, dos ayudantes segundos, tenientes, un capellan, un cirujano, un mariscal, dos mancebos, un talabartero, un armero, un clarin mayor, un cabo, y ocho gastadores." [emphasis added] Translation" "The headquarters of each regiment, in all times, will consist of a colonel, a lieutenant colonel major, two squadron commanders, a first adjutant captain, two second adjutants, lieutenants, a chaplain, a surgeon, a marshal, two lads, a saddler [or belt maker], a gunsmith, a bugle major, a corporal, and eight pioneers." Now, all we need is for Santa Anna's army of 1836 to have adhered to the legislation What the decree said about regiments presumably also extended to battalions.
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Post by dimbo33 on Jan 14, 2008 21:07:04 GMT -5
I think that it is entirely possible that many of the headquarters positions were unfilled. There is little doubt that the surgeons, gunsmiths and chaplains were nearly non existent when it came to the individual units. I am aware of one quote from Filisola where he mentions gastadores. He said that when he sent Woll to the Texans camp at San Jacinto, he sent one of Urrea's lieutenants, a Spaniard and two gastadores. I did not get the impression that he was referring to members of the Zapadores Btn. but it is possible. Gregg
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Post by stuart on Jan 18, 2008 9:03:12 GMT -5
Missed this for some reason...
It was pretty standard practise in European armies at this time for each battalion to include a squade of sappers or pioneers (terminology varied). In the British Army it was two men per company under the immediate charge of a corporal - there was no HQ company as such. These men always paraded together and on formal occasions turned out looking very shiny, marching at the head of the column with aprons, axes and full beards.
The French (who were copied by the Mexicans) did the same and regarded them as part of the tete de colon, along with the colour party, drum major etc.
I would therefore expect that the two guys referred to were indeed regimental pioneers rather than members of the Zapadores, and were going along as an inposing looking escort for the lieutenant.
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Post by dimbo33 on Feb 4, 2008 0:50:19 GMT -5
mayor de órdenes- chief logistical officer--Francisco de Garay was second in command and mayor de ordenes for Urrea's division.
guerrillas--individual attack versus in rank and file. Urrea wrote that his attacking troops resorted to attacking en guerrillas at Perdido.
grandes guardias--The main guard to a unit that is in camp. Outside of the main guard would be the sentinels.
cuartillas-Mexican copper coins
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Post by TRK on Feb 6, 2008 8:32:48 GMT -5
guerrillas--individual attack versus in rank and file. Urrea wrote that his attacking troops resorted to attacking en guerrillas at Perdido. To amplify this, a reference to regular troops deploying en guerrillas, I believe, means they are breaking from formation but still functioning as parties (even up to company level, in references I've seen) and acting as scouts and/or skirmishers. The terms guerrilla/guerrillas refer to a party or parties, not individuals, individual irregular warriors being guerrilleros.
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