Hays' 1st Regiment, Texas Mounted Volunteers

[TRK]

In some old notes, I came across the following pertaining to Col. John C. Hays' Regiment of Texas Mounted Volunteers, 1847. Since I know of at least one other Hays researcher on this forum, here it is:

National Archives, RG 156, Papers of the Ordnance Department, Entry 6, Letters Sent, Volume 9:

Lt. Col. Talcott to Capt. H. K. Whiteley at Baton Rouge Arsenal, Ordnance Office, Mar. 19, 1847
"You will hold the following stores subject to the requisition of Colonel Hays, and they will not be issued upon that of any other person, viz:
800 percussion rifles
800 " pistols
800 rifle pouches
800 flask & pouch belts
800 waist belts & plates
800 copper powder flasks
800 gun slings
800 pockets for carrying caps
N.B. Col. Hays is about to raise a Regt. of Texas Rangers for service."

[stuart]

Interesting, but I'd be intrigued to see what was actually issued.

Years ago when a group of us were researching the English Civil War armies we came across a whole bunch of very similar requisitions like these sent by the Earl of Essex to the armoury in the Tower of London, which indicated that his infantry regiments had two musketeers to each pikeman and that each pikeman would have had a full set of infantry armour; just as was laid down in the manuals of the time. Heady stuff, until some subsequent research turned up the other side of the correspondence in which the storekeeper basically said you have to be joking; we don't have anything like the quantities of this stuff that you're asking for!

[TRK]

Understood, Stuart, that a requisition or hold-order for weapons and equipment doesn't necessarily equate to what was finally disbursed.
I, too, would like to know exactly what was issued, when and where, to Hays' regiment, but haven't found those returns, yet.

[jagjetta]

TRK:
Any idea if Hays actually received the items? Very interesting mix of accouterments:

the pouch belt and flasks makes it sound as if they were expecting to receive rifleman's accouterments.

John A-G

[TRK]

John, I figured that since you are now officially a resident of Missouri, you'd say "show me."

I have no proof if the requested arms and equipment were in fact issued.

The order by Lt. Col. George Talcott, chief of ordnance, US Army, for the weapons and equipment to be held for Hays was no doubt a result of Hays' official visit to Washington, D.C., in March 1847. Hays had the ear of President Polk, and in fact accompanied him and Mrs. Polk as their guest to a wedding on the night of March 18, the day before Talcott cut his order to Capt. Whiteley at Baton Rouge Arsenal. The document I posted was probably just an expedited request of Hays'. If nothing else, it tells us what he would have liked his regiment to be armed and equipped with. Incidentally, on March 20, the War Department issued the official order authorizing Hays to raise his regiment.

It is well known that Hays' regiment received two shipments of Colt revolvers ("Walker" six-shooters, according to Hays' biographer, James K. Greer) in camp at Vergara, near Veracruz, on Oct. 19 and 26, 1847. As for rifles, there is the account that some of Hays' men at Vergara held a shooting match in which they tested the Walkers against Mississippi rifles, and found the Walkers had greater range...which admittedly proves nothing about what rifles the regiment was armed with, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a good ratio of Mississippi rifles among them.

[sloanrodgers]

trk said:

In some old notes, I came across the following pertaining to Col. John C. Hays' Regiment of Texas Mounted Volunteers, 1847. Since I know of at least one other Hays researcher on this forum, here it is:

Although I believe you're referring to me, I'm much less knowledgeable
on this period of Col. Hays's regiment. I'm more familiar with his various
San Antionio based ranger companies and his regiment leading up to the
fight at Monterey. I do appreciate the Walker-Colt pistol/ accoutrement
list above and hope you can post more here. I have some knowledge on
the creation and use of these early Colt pistols.

While Col. Colt may have won the West with his revolver, I'm not so sure
he won the South or Mexican War with the Walker-Colt as some seem to
believe. I'm presently at work without my books and records, but think I
recall that there were many shipping delays with these weapons. Some
of Col. Hays's regiment did not even receive their Walker-Colts until the
closing battles of the war. The immortal Samuel H. Walker only received
his presentation Walker-Colts shortly before his very mortal death at the
Oct. 9, 1847 battle of Huamantla. Thus I don't believe these Colts really
got the hard battle testing that has been attributed to them. I think this
weopon has an interesting history with the Texas rangers and it certainly
saved Sam Colt from the brink of financial failure, but there's a limit as to
how effective the Walker-Colt was during its short heroic life.

[Kevin Young]

Not to get off topic (but the arms and equipment discussion is more than interesting) but we had a Vermilion County lad who lost his land because of a failed railroad deal who headed to the Texas Republic and served in ART. Morgan Payne is his name and during the Mexican War served as a Sgt. Company E. 1st Texas Mtd Vol. After Hay's first regiment was discharged, Payne came back to Vermilion County to raise a company of volunters. Vermilion County was a Whig stronghold and the Democratic Gov wouldn't take volunteers from the county.
So he went to Indiana and raised a company. He became Capt. ofCompany C, 4th Indiana Vol, who worked as anti-guerilla forces around Puebla. My great, great , great uncle served in his company. Payne came back to Illinois, was briefly in the Union Army and is buried up in Pontiac.

[sloanrodgers]

I found Morgan L. Payne listed as the top dog or 1st sergeant in Claibourn C. Herbert's
company, not a lower NCO. You're not off topic since he was a Hays ranger.

[Kevin Young]

I guess I should have said THE Sgt! He is regarded as one of the pioneers of Vermilion County-commanded the local company during the Black Hawk War. They camped on their way to Chicago area in 1832 here at Bicknell's Point(about two miles north of where I live) and went on to build Fort Payne (named for him) at Naper's Settlement (Naperville).

We went looking for his grave at South Side Cememtery in Pontiac (My grandparents are buried there as well) but his grave is apparently unmarked. Have been talking to some folks up there abit trying to find it and have it marked. It is kind of nice having a soldier of the ART and a members of Hay's in the area.

[mustanggray]

I'm not sure why I've never replied to this thread but I just haven't...

I'm not 100% sure about the details, will look them up BUT Walker's rangers that were captured while on patrol after Rancho Carricitos had Paterson's and US rifle accoutrements to include flasks, belts and all the other good stuff that goes along with them. I'll try and dig up the list and post it here this week. This sort of thing coupled with the information on Federal issue clothing paints a totally different picture of the rangers from what most folks have set in their minds eye. Of course there certainly were the typical buckskin clad Texian Devils running around along side of more martial looking Texian volunteers!!!

[Kevin Young]

Cool stuff Scott! Would love to see the details.

[mustanggray]

Here it is... credit for bringing this to my attention goes to Gordon Frye.
SMc
****************************************************
Here is a copy of the Ordnance Returns signed for by Samuel Hamilton Walker. I got the info from Belden and Haven, "The Colt Revolver", 1941.

As a note, there are listed "6 Rifles, North's", and later "Browned Rifles"=
.
These can be either the 1817 "Common" Rifle, OR the 1841 Hall's pattern, as=

made by Simeon North (who also made the carbines).

Note that Walker's unit was issued a good number of both Colts revolving
pistols, as well as Colt's revolving carbines. He was held in high esteem,=

it would seem! It also goes a ways in why Walker was allowed to go to Colt=

as a representative of the Army a few months later, to request more
revolvers for his new unit, the RMR.

Equipment Issued to Captain Samuel H. Walker, US Mounted Rifles, at Point
Isabel, TX. 1846

Received at Point Isabel, Texas, April 20th 1846 of Captain Ramsay, Ord.
Dept. the following Ordnance and Ordnance Stores.
Viz: 8 Carbines, Hall's
6 " Screw Drivers and nipple wrenches
6 " Wipers
1 " Spring Vise
400 Musket Percussion Caps
32 Pistols Colt's Patent
32 Screw Drivers do
32 Flasks do
32 Percussion priming Boxes
32 bullet mould, do
1200 Percussion caps, do
6 Rifles, Norths
6 Screw Drivers, do
6 Wipers, do
23 Pr. Rifle Handles
300 Carbine Buck and Ball cartridges
300 Carbine Ball cartridges
2 Arm Chests
10 Cartridge Boxes, Carbine
7 Rifle Pouches
6 Waist belts, Infantry
6 Waist Belt Plates, do
7 Flasks and Pouch belts, rifle
7 Plates for do
25 Musket balls
7 copper flasks, rifle.


May 8th-
3 Carbines, Norths
3 Screw drivers and nipple wrenches
400 musket percussion caps
1000 do do Sporting
3 Carbine cartridge boxes
3 do do plates
6 Waist belts
6 Waist belts plates
400Carbine ball cartridges
10 Carbine Colts patent
10 Priming Boxes
6 Bullet moulds
10 Copper flasks Colts
4 Screw Drivers, Colts
10 Carbine pouches
40 pounds of lead



Invoice of Public Arms lost by an attack made on Capt. S.H. Walker's Camp a=
t
the Lagoon Inan Pelon on the 28th April 1846 by an overwhelming force of
the enemy

Viz: 12 Twelve Colts Pistols
28 Twenty eight Flasks
12 Twelve Bullet Moulds
Twelve Percussion Cap Boxes
4 Dragoon Carbines
6 Six cartridge Boxes
6 Six Waist Belts
6 Six " Plates
6 Six Screw Drivers and nipple wrenches
6 Six Wipers
1 Spring Vice
2 Army Chests
3 Rifles (Norths) =
=
=



I Certify that the above list of Arms were in the possession and care of 15=
men
of my Company whom I left in Camp at Lagoon Inan Pelon on the night of
27th April 1846 and that in the attack of the Mexicans on this camp on the =

following day, all of these arms were lost and Captured and that One Carbin=
e
was lost unavoidable in swimming the Lake while carrying Express from Fort =

Brown on the night of the 4th May, 1846.

S.H. Walker, Lt. Col.
Of Texas Rangers



Arms turned in by Capt. Walker

9 Colt revolving Carbines
3 Contract brown full stocked rifles
6 Hall's Carbines
9 Carbine or Rifle cartridge boxes
3 " " waist belts
7 " " waist plates
4 Colt's Bullet molds
3 " Pistol Flasks
3 Percussion Primers
3 Colt wrenches and screw drivers
2 Rifle wipers
4 Copper flasks
5 Rifle Pouches

They will be receipted for by the Ord. Dept. and taken up on his property
return.

[Kevin Young]

That is pretty impressive! You wonder what the Mexicans did with the Colt Pistols they captured.

Gordon Frye-that is a name I have not heard in a long time. A grand fellow!

[mustanggray]

They shot around corners at los diablos Tejanos... of course!

[Kevin Young]

;D
I hoped they worked better than the one Lysander Wells used.