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Post by Herb on Jan 31, 2008 13:25:12 GMT -5
I know some of you are familiar with the Stolen Valor story, but in case some of you aren't here's it in nutshell.
For some reason post Vietnam, there has been a huge number of men who falsely claim to be combat veterans. These false claimants generally make extravagant claims about being Special Forces, Seals, Delta Force or Rangers, and having all kinds of mysterious experiences operating undercover with military intelligence, or the CIA.
Generally, these people turn out to have been clerks and such, and not Rambo's - or to have not even been in service. Recently a man in LA who claimed for years to have been a Special Operator and that he had won the Medal of Honor was outed. Turned out he received a Bad Conduct discharge before he ever completed Basic Training.
The Internet has helped these guys proliferate,but, there now is an organization headquartered in Dallas called Stolen Valor dedicated to outing these fakers. There is also is a prominent Ranger website that has pages dedicated (with pictures, addresses and the true story) of fakers that claimed to be Special Operators.
So how can the average person tell whether somebody is the real deal or just another Soldier of Fortune Magazine wannabe?
It's basically like everything else - if the story is too good to be true - it probably isn't. There are far more regular infantrymen and simple soldiers out there then Special Operators - and for some reason these fakers all want to be Special Operators.
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Post by cantador4u on Jan 31, 2008 22:13:50 GMT -5
I think that in SOME cases this can be a genetic thing. My ex-wife's uncle served in the Army Driving trucks in Germany. However he tells stories about being a Green Beret in Viet Nam. He never went to Viet Nam nor was he ever a green beret. As I found out more about the family history I learned that his father (my ex-wife's grandfather) also made up reality to suit himself. His stories were about working on some sort of great thing for Boeing Aircraft during WW2. Hmmmm, nature or nurture?
Fast-forward to today. My youngest daughter tells people that she is in a rock band and so spends a lot of time on the road performing. She is also a professional skateboarder which causes her to be on the road even more. This probably lead to her drug problems. I guess I shouldn't be upset about this because in this version of reality we adopted her and her birth mother was a crack addict.
It's all BS of course. It's as if she thinks life, her life especially, should be like what she sees on TV. Actually learning to play a guitar or ride a skateboard takes far too much effort and time, especially when you have mean parents that won't buy you everything you want and let you do anything you want to do.
If there really is a "BS gene" it seems to be expressing itself in three different generations. It certainly wouldn't explain all the people who recreate their own glorious reality but might be something worth exploring. But how would a researcher gather data? These types of family history are not what people want to disclose.
It's tough enough trying to understand a teenage girl at the best of times. This makes it especially challenging.
- Paul
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Post by Allen Wiener on Feb 1, 2008 0:11:15 GMT -5
The absolutely weirdest case I've heard of is Joseph Ellis, one of the historians I admire most and whose books I read a lot. Unlike Stephen Ambrose and Doris Kearns Goodwin, he was not caught plagiarizing and was never accused of it. However, he lied to his students by saying he'd served in Vietnam and experienced combat there. It was a lie. What the hell was the man thinking? Why would he do that? As I recall he's either won Pulitzers or been nominated for them and is highly respected in his field; he teaches at Mount Holyoke College, a very presitgious school. He got suspended for a year or two, but I really fail to understand why a person in his position would do that.
AW
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Post by Herb on Feb 1, 2008 11:01:10 GMT -5
Joseph Ellis rings a bell.
I want to clarify something I said. When I mentioned clerks, I met no disrespect. I had a specific incident in mind, one of these liars, who claimed to have participated in mutiple war crimes in Vietnam and was actually receiving combat disability from the Veterans Administration, when investigated turned out his actual service was as a company clerk in Alaska!
When serving your country in a combat zone, there are no truly safe jobs - all of us know about the truck drivers ambushed and killed with Jessica Lynch in Iraq.
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Post by marklemon on Feb 4, 2008 0:39:17 GMT -5
During 1985-1988, I was operations officer, and detachment O in C of a detachment of Landing Craft Air Cushion vehicles ("LCAC's") in Assault Craft Unit FIVE out of Camp Pendleton, CA. During this period, one of my senior enlisted NCO's, a Senior Chief Petty Officer, whose name I can't remember, claimed to be a Medal of Honor recipient. As he never wore it on his uniform, I and my assistant O in C were both skeptical. As a sort of "special" outfit, we had the same type of officer to enlisted relationship as most special warfare units, that is to say, while we certainly knew who was in charge, we at the same time had a slightly more "relaxed" manner of dealing with each other. As an example of this, the officers and senior enlisted would occasionally go to each other's clubs, by invitation of course, and have a few beers. It was during one such session that I and my A O in C pressed this Senior Chief about his supposed MOH. The idea was to get him sufficiently lubricated to the point that he'd tell his story. And it worked. In hushed tones he told us that he was sent as a special oerative down to Central America to kill the communist assassin that had shot and killed an American advisor and ex-navy SEAL named Shauffelburger (sp?). Afterwards, he took us to his room and showed us his medal. Naturally, there was no citation. He explained this by saying that it was such a secret op that no citation was written! Of course, we instantly knew he was lying, and a short investigation confirmed this. He was given an admin discharge, as I recall under other than honorable conditions (OTH). Sad that an otherwise fine career was destroyed by the pathetic need to be some sort of imaginary "macho" hero.
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Post by stuart on Mar 27, 2008 4:49:02 GMT -5
Presumably the sniper fire at Tuzla is now going to be cited as the most blatant example, or am I just mis-speaking... ;D
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Post by Allen Wiener on Mar 27, 2008 7:25:19 GMT -5
It may be; that one's on film!
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Post by sloanrodgers on Mar 27, 2008 8:30:09 GMT -5
During 1985-1988, I was operations officer, and detachment O in C of a detachment of Landing Craft Air Cushion vehicles ("LCAC's") in Assault Craft Unit FIVE out of Camp Pendleton, CA. During this period, one of my senior enlisted NCO's, a Senior Chief Petty Officer, whose name I can't remember, claimed to be a Medal of Honor recipient. As he never wore it on his uniform, I and my assistant O in C were both skeptical. As a sort of "special" outfit, we had the same type of officer to enlisted relationship as most special warfare units, that is to say, while we certainly knew who was in charge, we at the same time had a slightly more "relaxed" manner of dealing with each other. As an example of this, the officers and senior enlisted would occasionally go to each other's clubs, by invitation of course, and have a few beers. It was during one such session that I and my A O in C pressed this Senior Chief about his supposed MOH. The idea was to get him sufficiently lubricated to the point that he'd tell his story. And it worked. In hushed tones he told us that he was sent as a special oerative down to Central America to kill the communist assassin that had shot and killed an American advisor and ex-navy SEAL named Shauffelburger (sp?). Afterwards, he took us to his room and showed us his medal. Naturally, there was no citation. He explained this by saying that it was such a secret op that no citation was written! Of course, we instantly knew he was lying, and a short investigation confirmed this. He was given an admin discharge, as I recall under other than honorable conditions (OTH). Sad that an otherwise fine career was destroyed by the pathetic need to be some sort of imaginary "macho" hero. Ugh! Sounds like a guy I know. He has an huge fantasy life and is always stretching the blanket with tall tales of his days when he was involved in airborne or black ops during the mid 1980s. Recently, he told me that he earned three silver stars, but he can't tell anything about these ultra top secret operations. Nothing about the guy physically or mentally speaks hero, so I looked him up on Military.com. I discovered that the only MOS listed for him was that of a radio/ communications specialist. More than anything else, I now just feel sorry for him. Nobody trusts or believes a word the long-noser says.
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Post by Herb on Mar 27, 2008 9:59:30 GMT -5
Presumably the sniper fire at Tuzla is now going to be cited as the most blatant example, or am I just mis-speaking... ;D It's even worse if you were in Bosnia, Tuzla, was the most secure base in the American Sector, thats why the MultiNational Division Headquarters, and all the US support troops operated out of there. Going to Tuzla for the day was considered a major break, for our guys! ;D While there's no such thing as "no threat" anywhere in the world, that was as close as you could get!
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Post by ranger2518 on Mar 27, 2008 10:12:14 GMT -5
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Post by Herb on Jan 1, 2009 14:16:26 GMT -5
Yesterday in San Antonio, an Army veteran who served two enlistments was sentenced to three years probation for falsely claiming to be a combat veteran with a Purple Heart and a Bronze Star with V Device.
Prosecuters had sought incarceration, but the judge, because of the man's actual service, reduced the sentence to only probation.
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Post by Jim Boylston on Jan 1, 2009 20:22:30 GMT -5
I don't like these pretenders any more than you do but, out of curiosity, what did the charge the guy with? Was he lying for financial gain or just puffing himself up? Jim
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Post by Herb on Jan 2, 2009 13:40:15 GMT -5
I don't like these pretenders any more than you do but, out of curiosity, what did the charge the guy with? Was he lying for financial gain or just puffing himself up? Jim It's now a Federal crimminal offense to claim to have won any of the nations medals for valor (I'm not sure of the technicial language but that's the effect)'. In this particular case, there were mutiple offenses, he also falsified/created military documents and created a false military ID to gain access to San Antonio military facilities.
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Post by sloanrodgers on Jan 2, 2009 19:07:26 GMT -5
No good ever comes from someone claiming combat awards that they didn't earn. The real reward of serving in combat is obviously just survivng the maelstrom of war. A true combat vet can usually spot a faker a mile away and warn others. I've done so a few times with my limited war experience and I have been correct with my faker radar. A big give-away is gloating about killing people like it was nothing or inconsistancies in various wild stories about combat.
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Post by sloanrodgers on Apr 28, 2010 4:36:47 GMT -5
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