Post by alamoglenn on Oct 11, 2018 18:35:20 GMT -5
As you can see, no one responded to your plea for help. It's a shame, but I must tell you that the heyday of the Alamo forums (this one and the John Wayne-Alamo Forum) was back in the early 2000s. So much was written by so many Alamo enthusiasts about an infinite number of topics -- including the Trevino House -- that the well became dry after 2012 or so. Much of the best information centered around Mark Lemon's amazing book and model, and Alamo buffs got to learn a lot from the rivalry between Gary Zaboly and Lemon, who faced off frequently on both forums. But today, I find, the Alamo experts prefer to remain silent. Not only do they refrain from posting anymore, but they don't even answer emails. My attempts by snailmail and email to reach Mark Lemon have all failed. I reached Craig Covner though his wife, whose an academic, but I never received a reply. I've also emailed Pamela Rosser, the Alamo conservator, but no answer. These and other Alamo experts have apparently hung up their spurs for good. I suspect that once you mention you're working on a model, it becomes the kiss of death. There are other explanations for their silence. Some of them have died, like Kevin Young. Some are retired, like Jake Ivey (if he's still alive). Others have moved on to new and different endeavors. All of the wisest enthusiasts, it would seem, are now in their sixties or older. Having spent hours sharing their knowledge decades ago, they are no longer interested in helping newcomers like me (I'm an academic historian with a specialty in the Civil War, but I have pursued serious study and research of the Alamo for more than sixty years!). Only over the last year or so did I discover the wealth of online information about the Alamo, including this forum and the "other forum," as members of this one used to refer to the John Wayne-Alamo Forum. Unfortunately the search engines of both forums are weak and usually do not reveal much about the topic you're trying to run down. The consensus over a peaked thatch roof derives from Seth Eastman's sketch done in the 1840s. Zaboly believes, however, that the house must have had a shingle roof (he also, erroneously, believes that the Trevino and Castaneda houses were connected and he has drawn them as a single long building along the west wall). In any event, I think Rich Curilla, of Alamo Village fame, still posts on this forum, but given the overwhelming number of topics and threads, its impossible to know when someone has recently posted and under which thread. As for the John Wayne forum, it seems to be defunct. There is no way to register or to contact the moderators. On this forum, many of the older images cannot be opened. Another disadvantage is that many of the posts on both forums refer to old issues of the Alamo Journal, which is very hard to find, unless, I suppose, you live in Texas. If you've spent any time on both forums, you will have noticed how many members wasted time and space by making jokes, often inside ones that are now meaningless and quite annoying. However, if you use this forum's search engine and type in "Trevino," you'll get the relevant messages that at least mention the house.
Now that I've aired some of my own frustrations, I hope you find success in figuring out the reason for the Trevino's peaked roof.
Thanks for your info. I think i kind of understood things as I started but thought why not try. Every time I look at the interpretations of the Alamo I get the feeling that no one can agree totally on very much of anything. My model is the Blue Moon version and is intended for miniature wargaming. I have truly enjoyed working on it and have to admit I am not too obsessed by total accuracy. I have never liked the roof on the Trevino House a wonder if it was added after 1836 but before Eastman did his drawing. It seems kind of an North American solution to roofing and it looks out of place whenever I look at any illustration of the entire compound. Too Drums Along the Mohawk for me. Since I`m just wargaming I`ve decided to add a modify the model so I can represent the roof both ways. In the end I don`t think it matters.
Last Edit: Oct 13, 2018 18:41:47 GMT -5 by rembrandt
There's an old adage in engineering that if something looks right it probably is right. I agree that the thatched roof looks out of place and that what Eastman saw wasn't necessarily what Bexarenos saw in 1836. For your purposes I'd go for what looks right, rather than tying yourself in knots over it
STUART In battle men are apt to lose their self possession, and do very absurd things.
This is fun to discuss and believe no knots in my stomach. I have Mark`s book and look at it all the time. I`ll take a look tonight but I`m not sure it will help. So much of the Alamo is lost that your just never sure about anything even when we all agree. If the Eastman drawing is the last word it really isn`t enough for me. A couple of good carpenters could through a roof like that up in a few days sometime between the 1836 and when Eastman did his drawing. They probably would not have been Tejanos because roof looks like it is from Tennessee not Texas. I do wonder about the logic of the interpretations and their pedigrees.
The key historical reference for the pitched roof on the Treveno House is the drawing, sometimes called the vista, by Sanchez-Navarro, that he claimed he drew of the Alamo from the Veramendi House during the siege. Sanchez-Navarro was a Mexican officer who fought in both the Battle of Bexar in 1835, and the Battle of the Alamo. His drawings, a plat of the Alamo, and the vista, are important foundations for most of the artists and model makers.
As for the lack of participation by the "old timers" most of the topics/evidence have been pretty thoroughly debated, and lacking any new evidence, finds, or books, the lively debates of the past are unlikely. Most information is now shared via Facebook.
Some folks learn by reading, some folks learn by seeing, and some folks just got to pee on the electric fence.
My interpretation is that the Trevino house originally had a roof like Castenada but it fell and was replaced with the gabled structure. Wood or straw (jacale)? Kind of depends on availability of materials and time, I think. Lumber may have been prioritized for fortifications and ramps.
As for model references, I believe that Mark Lemon, Gary Zaboly and George Nelson have all done their homework. Their models differ in areas where there is just no definitive evidence and is an educated guess. Pick one interpretation and go with it or do your own research with the same meager source material, make your own conclusions, and be prepared to justify it to people who have their own ideas based on even less information.
In evaluating source material, remember you have drawings that were made at the time of the battle (Navarro, LaBastida and Jameson) and drawings that were made some time after the battle (Gentilz and Eastman). Gentilz drew the Alamo as he thought it looked in 1836 but he did it at a time when there were still living eyewitnesses. Eastman drew what it looked like at the time of the drawing (1840s).
I think this forum is still one of the best resources for Alamo research. It is a shame that many of the voices that contributed are no longer active.
Post by alamoglenn on Oct 20, 2018 16:45:38 GMT -5
Thanks, jrboddie, for your good advice. And, yes, the Alamo Forum is a treasure trove of information on practically every aspect of the Alamo's history and its place in our cultural history. I have read thousands, albeit not all, of the postings on this site. I keep learning and learning. Several members have been especially helpful to me, and I appreciate them for taking me under their wings. While I am focused right now on the architectural and archaeological aspects of the Alamo, I am very interested in the narrative of the siege, the story of its defenders, the battle itself, and the place the Alamo occupies in the American memory. The forum also provides confirmation that Alamo buffs are often Alamo experts, and that I'm not the only person in the world who is a little nutty when it comes to the Alamo.
Your CGI Alamo, based on Mark Lemon's book, is fantastic.