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Post by Allen Wiener on May 13, 2014 14:22:44 GMT -5
I'll add my two cents and agree on the verdict regarding the 2004 movie. I recall seeing it the day it opened, in a nearly empty theater, and leaving thinking it was a great movie and blabbing the same to my friends, urging them to see it. I think the location of the church stood out to Alamo buffs and experts after so many years of trying to reconstruct what the place really looked like. But movie making calls for different priorities and is only ever an artistic representation of what happened. Considering how inaccurate the sets for many historically based movies are (think about the Little Big Horn scene in "They Died With Their Boots On"), the Hancock set was pretty good and did serve the purposes Rich mentions of giving the viewer perspective on the battle. Too bad this was pretty much lost in the editing along with a good deal else, such as Almeron and Susannah Dickenson's identities. I, too, would like to see a different edit; an expanded edition.
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Post by Rich Curilla on May 13, 2014 15:24:39 GMT -5
I'll add my two cents and agree on the verdict regarding the 2004 movie. I recall seeing it the day it opened, in a nearly empty theater, and leaving thinking it was a great movie and blabbing the same to my friends, urging them to see it. I think the location of the church stood out to Alamo buffs and experts after so many years of trying to reconstruct what the place really looked like. But movie making calls for different priorities and is only ever an artistic representation of what happened. Considering how inaccurate the sets for many historically based movies are (think about the Little Big Horn scene in "They Died With Their Boots On"), the Hancock set was pretty good and did serve the purposes Rich mentions of giving the viewer perspective on the battle. Too bad this was pretty much lost in the editing along with a good deal else, such as Almeron and Susannah Dickenson's identities. I, too, would like to see a different edit; an expanded edition. John Lee still wants to do it -- and said he has all the elements of the film ready to go -- but the redo still involves major capital that the Mouse House would have to caugh up, which has grown extremely unlikely, considering their unwillingness to even promote the original release. (That's why you were in a nearly empty theater.) If given the opportunity however, John would still jump on it and, I believe, would turn out an even finer film.
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Post by Jim Boylston on May 14, 2014 10:23:31 GMT -5
[/quote]John Lee still wants to do it -- and said he has all the elements of the film ready to go -- but the redo still involves major capital that the Mouse House would have to caugh up, which has grown extremely unlikely, considering their unwillingness to even promote the original release. (That's why you were in a nearly empty theater.) If given the opportunity however, John would still jump on it and, I believe, would turn out an even finer film. [/quote] Sorry to say, considering that the film is #2 on the list of the biggest Hollywood money losers of all time, I doubt Disney will throw another dime at it. Honestly, I'm not too enamored with the script that was reproduced in Frank Thompson's book (referring to his book on the film; not the novelization). While it explains the roles of some of the characters, it adds some plot devices that I found to be melodramatic and somewhat predictable. I'm not sure my vision of a director's cut would comply with that of JLH! Jim
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Post by Rich Curilla on May 14, 2014 10:55:02 GMT -5
I'm not sure my vision of a director's cut would comply with that of JLH! Jim John's cut would not create stuff that wasn't already there. In any event, the only hope at this point (IMO) would be money coming from private sectors allowing him to add back the stuff Disney made him cut (or cut themselves). The goal would have to be making it the best film it could be for what they shot. That said, I didn't have any problems with his final draft (which is what is in Frank's book). I had problems with John Sales' final draft for Ron Howard, which seemed unfilmable and awfully awkward.
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Post by Jim Boylston on May 14, 2014 10:58:05 GMT -5
I don't think I ever saw the Sayles draft, though I know it was around some years back.
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Post by Rich Curilla on May 14, 2014 11:44:58 GMT -5
To me,it seemed unwieldy as a script. Half again as many speaking parts as JLH's. Totally unrelated characters showing up at campfires, like a young Jefferson Davis. Subplots out the Kazoo. Seemed like something that needed to be expanded into a miniseries for TV rather than compacted for Film. I think JLH had the same reaction, since he wrote his own, using the best material from previous drafts of Sayles and Les Bohem.
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Post by edward on May 15, 2014 0:20:02 GMT -5
I understand that the Main Gate or other names it may be called was around until 1871 before it was leveled. Where there not any pictures taken of this structure since the first known photo of the Alamo Church in or around 1849 where just a few feet of it were shown on the left side of that picture? If not we just have assorted drawings which help but are somewhat different from one to another in appearance. Thanks for help. CJE Plan View using the data from the Deed.
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Post by Rich Curilla on May 15, 2014 3:35:42 GMT -5
I understand that the Main Gate or other names it may be called was around until 1871 before it was leveled. Where there not any pictures taken of this structure since the first known photo of the Alamo Church in or around 1849 where just a few feet of it were shown on the left side of that picture? If not we just have assorted drawings which help but are somewhat different from one to another in appearance. Thanks for help. CJE Plan View using the data from the Deed.
View Attachment.
This would be without the east end room that disappeared after the battle. Whether Andrade knocked it down when he dismantled the fortifications after San Jacinto or whether it just went into ruins unknown. According to Giraud's plat, there was a slight change in bearing of the south wall as indicated on my plat done for Rick Range by the straight continuation of the broken line. The change seems to have been at the west end of the gate house. I notice that your west wall of the Low Barrack is at a slight angle. Is this shown in the deed? I tried to search that on the Bexar site using the key numbers in you label, but it found nothing. My total length on the south side is 132'4."
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Post by edward on May 16, 2014 9:37:54 GMT -5
Plan View using the data from the Deed.
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This would be without the east end room that disappeared after the battle. Whether Andrade knocked it down when he dismantled the fortifications after San Jacinto or whether it just went into ruins unknown. According to Giraud's plat, there was a slight change in bearing of the south wall as indicated on my plat done for Rick Range by the straight continuation of the broken line. The change seems to have been at the west end of the gate house. I notice that your west wall of the Low Barrack is at a slight angle. Is this shown in the deed? I tried to search that on the Bexar site using the key numbers in you label, but it found nothing. My total length on the south side is 132'4." Deed from Bexar County Court house the SACE data is from City of San Antonio. The city has not added all the deeds. There is also a building (for Bexar County) south of the Alamodome where they house all the archived court cases.
The bearing for the west wall per deed is N.9-1/2 degree.
Attachments:
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Post by loucapitano on May 18, 2014 17:42:16 GMT -5
Thanks Rich! Your explanation was very helpful in explaining what went on during the creation and shooting of 2004 Alamo. Overall, the movie was masterful and will hopefully get more positive feedback over time. Who knows, maybe one of our members will get to work on the 2024 version and really get it right. I hope I live to see it. If I don't, I can live with the great films we now have. Lou from Long Island
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Post by Rich Curilla on May 18, 2014 21:23:23 GMT -5
Who knows, maybe one of our members will get to work on the 2024 version and really get it right. Ha! I'm afraid "getting it right" is a function of making a different Alamo movie for each and every Alamo buff and historian out there. These fellas paid a lot of attention to the Alamo community -- tried to make a movie that would at least resonate with those who love the subject -- but all they got was abuse because they moved the church up to the front of the long barrack. And, most amazing of all, each still looks back upon the experience of making The Alamo as a favorite moment in his career.
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Post by Rich Curilla on May 18, 2014 21:30:44 GMT -5
Deed from Bexar County Court house the SACE data is from City of San Antonio. The city has not added all the deeds. There is also a building (for Bexar County) south of the Alamodome where they house all the archived court cases.
The bearing for the west wall per deed is N.9-1/2 degree.
Thanks, Edward.
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