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Post by pff on Nov 28, 2012 15:04:40 GMT -5
COuld he have ment an "Explorer" ?
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Post by Rich Curilla on Nov 28, 2012 17:16:21 GMT -5
"Casador de osos?" ;D
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Post by sloanrodgers on Nov 28, 2012 23:10:30 GMT -5
I can't remember the exact context, but calling Crockett a naturalista could have also been a little sarcasm or a slight insult for the former politician. It wasn't the worst name that was applied to him by his enemies.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Nov 29, 2012 13:29:53 GMT -5
But for de la Pena to say that (if in fact he did) sort of removes it from being a political jab, doesn't it?
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Post by sloanrodgers on Nov 29, 2012 20:25:33 GMT -5
Maybe or perhaps not. People back then sometimes had an indirect way of throwing an insult as many were thin-skinned. After Crockett's 1829 charge that some statements by Col. B. W. Stewart (possibly Col. B. G. Stewert of Madison Co. TN) were ungenerous, ungentlemanly and untrue, Col. Stewart responded in the Nashville Banner. He stated the following about Crockett:
1. "....he has not been charged wrongfully."
2. "I am well aware that he is not in a situation to be affected by the process of law, let him say what he may, for it is notoriously known that he is insolvent......."
3. ...... as for any affair of honor, the colonel's business in that way at Washington City, in the affair with Mr. Lea (Crockett challeged Lea to a duel), seems to be quite too unsettled, to admit of any interference of mine, without incurring the disgrace of putting myself upon a footing with a man of doubtful courage."
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johnk
Full Member
Posts: 67
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Post by johnk on Jan 25, 2013 20:07:50 GMT -5
I was just curious as too why De La Pena referred to David Crockett as the famous "Naturalist" David Crockett. Surely De La Pena did not think David Crockett was just a humble botanist who came to Texas looking for interesting flowers and fauna? If Davids reputation reached Texas it certainly would have spilled over into the Mexican press about the congressman about whom great tales of bravery were often spoken. If he had called David a Statesman or Orator, that would have been more proper. But to call him a naturalist was like calling him Johnny Appleseed. What would have led La Pena, certainly an educated and proper officer to mislabel one of Americas shining sons as a flower picking Dandy? I think he means he was close to nature......ie Backwoodsman
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Post by loucapitano on Jan 28, 2013 18:10:28 GMT -5
In deference to Fess Parker, I still prefer to believe Crockett died in action, perhaps defending the West Wall cannon emplacement as some recent hypothesis have claimed. One of the captured Texans may have claimed to be Crockett in hopes of being spared. Maybe when Santa Anna saw the incredulous look of the other survivors, he had them all executed. I don't think we'll ever be sure.
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Post by Paul Sylvain on Jan 29, 2013 6:26:45 GMT -5
Well, you have Susanna Dickinson saying she saw his body in the courtyard outside the church ...
The only thing we know for sure is that his ashes were among those of every defender, all of whom died that morning. Whether he was KIA or executed after trying to surrender makes no difference to me. As you say, we will never know.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jan 29, 2013 23:41:38 GMT -5
Well, you have Susanna Dickinson saying she saw his body in the courtyard outside the church ... The only thing we know for sure is that his ashes were among those of every defender, all of whom died that morning. Whether he was KIA or executed after trying to surrender makes no difference to me. As you say, we will never know. Point is, they all crossed the line -- even if only as individuals in their own heads. There were many opportunities to leave. They did not. I believe that we must allow a person the right to his own way of death -- that he probably couldn't begin to imagine until he is there.
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Post by loucapitano on Feb 2, 2013 17:55:56 GMT -5
Amen Rich. We get to choose the way we live, but few get a chance to choose the way we die. They made that choice and marched into history. Peace to their ashes...
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Post by estebans on Feb 8, 2013 23:51:00 GMT -5
Can anyone tell us what the Mexican military called Jean-Louis Berlandier? That's someone we'd recognize as a naturalist who was active in that place and time, and maybe references to him in Spanish would help us gauge what the use of "naturalista" meant. Perhaps his other roles as a doctor and officer would complicate that by giving them other ways to identify him, but he was right on the scene in that milieu.
Stephen Schneider
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