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Post by sloanrodgers on Dec 23, 2012 17:04:19 GMT -5
Nevermind, I bought it as X-mas present to myself. There goes part of my Austin Book and Paper Show budget for next month, but it's a very cool book. I agree with Paul on the size of Zaboly's illustrations, but I guess they were trying to keep dimensions and price of the book down.
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Post by sloanrodgers on Dec 24, 2012 20:03:10 GMT -5
Mr. Collins has a fantastic collection of Alamo and Texas Revolutionary War relics, but I wonder about the origin and chain of custody of some of these items. Gen. Houston's snuff box on page. 293 is very interesting. This 3 1/4 inch diameter item is reported to be made from a piece of wood from the famed War of 1812 ship U.S.S. Constitution or Old Ironsides. Gen. Houston supposedly gave the tobacco container to Anna Raguet in 1837 as an odd courting gift. When William H. Whaton accepted this gift from Col. Robert E. W. Earl in Washington D.C. he stated in a June 12, 1836 letter that the snuff box was "splendidly ornamented with gold" and inscribed to Gen. Houston as stated in Collins' book. Congressman Ben Currey also reported (The Raven, pg. 263) this gift was a "splendid" snuff box. Am I missing something here? Is this wood snuff box splendidly ornamented in gold or out-of-the-ordinary so far as other 19th Century examples? I also wonder if the wood has been compared or scienticially authenticated to any U.S.S. Constitution samples.
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Post by Tom Nuckols on Dec 27, 2012 0:43:45 GMT -5
Mr. Collins has a fantastic collection of Alamo and Texas Revolutionary War relics, but I wonder about the origin and chain of custody of some of these items...Am I missing something here? Is this wood snuff box splendidly ornamented in gold or out-of-the-ordinary so far as other 19th Century examples? I also wonder if the wood has been compared or scienticially authenticated to any U.S.S. Constitution samples. To paraphrase Bogey in "The Maltese Falcon," are you suggesting this could be "the snuff that dreams are made of?" |
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Post by mjbrathwaite on Dec 27, 2012 17:37:10 GMT -5
Wouldn't they have to break a bit off it to have the wood authenticated? If I was Phil, I'd put it in the same category as my Ringo Starr autograph: I think it's authentic, but if it's not I don't want to know (although I'm going to try to get another one when he comes here in February).
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Post by Allen Wiener on Dec 27, 2012 22:17:51 GMT -5
I know my Ringo autographs are legit because he signed them for me while I was talking to him. Hope you get another one from him in Feb.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Dec 28, 2012 12:30:22 GMT -5
I know my Ringo autographs are legit because he signed them for me while I was talking to him. Hope you get another one from him in Feb. The drums loom large in his legend. |
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Post by Rich Curilla on Dec 28, 2012 12:31:51 GMT -5
To paraphrase Bogey in "The Maltese Falcon," are you suggesting this could be "the snuff that dreams are made of?" Ohhhh, Tom! One would think you are from Punn State. |
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Post by Allen Wiener on Dec 28, 2012 15:11:07 GMT -5
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Post by Tom Nuckols on Dec 28, 2012 23:43:46 GMT -5
[/quote]Ohhhh, Tom! One would think you are from Punn State.[/quote]
Keep an eye on this guy, folks. I sense he's one of those pun control nuts. You want to take my puns away? From my cold dead keyboard, Mr. Curilla.
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Post by sloanrodgers on Dec 29, 2012 0:34:34 GMT -5
Wouldn't they have to break a bit off it to have the wood authenticated? If I was Phil, I'd put it in the same category as my Ringo Starr autograph: I think it's authentic, but if it's not I don't want to know (although I'm going to try to get another one when he comes here in February). Puns aside, I don't think they would have to damage the snuff box. There are wood experts that can probably determine if the snuff box material is consistent to the southern live oak and pine used to construct Old Ironsides and other things just by looking at the item. I think two big differences btween this alleged Houston snuff box and your Ringo Starr autographs is this collectable is at least a 125 years older and more unique. I just believe the complete description and history of historical items should be revealed to buyers whether they are famous musicians or autograph hunters. Snuff said.  |
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Post by Paul Sylvain on Dec 29, 2012 18:02:06 GMT -5
Boom-tish. "Snuff" said, indeed.
Paul
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Post by Allen Wiener on Dec 29, 2012 22:00:53 GMT -5
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Post by sloanrodgers on Dec 29, 2012 22:29:29 GMT -5
Boom-tish. "Snuff" said, indeed. Paul Well, one more thing. I think several snuff boxes and others gifts were made for presidential candidates, presidents and revolutionary officers whenever the U.S.S. Constitution went in for repairs and wood was available. I imagine the items made at the same time as a certain controversial figurehead that was decapitated were highly prized by some men and their families. Maybe another snuff box survived for comparison. |
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Post by estebans on Dec 30, 2012 6:41:09 GMT -5
I just believe the complete description and history of historical items should be revealed to buyers whether they are famous musicians or autograph hunters. In the words of Phil Collins: " In the essays, I will try to explain where some of the artefacts you'll see and read about came from. . . . many of the items you'll read about have come from families who have guarded them well over the years. My partner Jim Guimarin and the highly respected historian Sam Nesmith and I delve deep into the history and provenance of each artifact as it becomes available." (xviii-xix) Are we reading the same book here?  Stephen Schneider |
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Post by sloanrodgers on Dec 30, 2012 18:40:21 GMT -5
I just believe the complete description and history of historical items should be revealed to buyers whether they are famous musicians or autograph hunters. In the words of Phil Collins: " In the essays, I will try to explain where some of the artefacts you'll see and read about came from. . . . many of the items you'll read about have come from families who have guarded them well over the years. My partner Jim Guimarin and the highly respected historian Sam Nesmith and I delve deep into the history and provenance of each artifact as it becomes available." (xviii-xix) Are we reading the same book here? Stephen Schneider Yes we are, but then I haven't specifcally commented on an item in the book that has a deep provenance that was purchased directly from the Houston family. This snuff box was purchased from the Lt. Col. Orbelo Collection as stated by Mr. Collins. It was sold to Orbelo by D.A.R. member Mildred Maxwell. She bought it from Frank Gallegher in 1966, who got it from the Raguet family. Some might consider this a shaky provenance for a Sam Houston possession. As a novice researcher, I've only done a little delving into the history of this Houston snuff box in the last week, but it seems strange that this item and similar Old Ironsides snuff boxes were described as "splendidly ornamented in gold", "beautifully inlaid with gold" and "elegant gold-mounted" in the 1830s and this one appears much less so. These were apparently political gifts handed out by Pres. Jackson ally and Boston Navy Yard/ U.S.S. Consitution commander Jesse D. Elliot to specific powerful people and I believe they were meant to impress. I might be wrong, but the box in Mr. Collins' book doesn't seem to be up to snuff with the contemporary descriptions. |
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