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Post by loucapitano on May 12, 2012 15:48:53 GMT -5
Herb, Being fairly new to the forum, I wish I had read the 12 page "Where did Crockett Die" thread begun in 2007. I always felt that Crockett's death might always remain a mystery. Now I'm convinced. I think Donovan's notes compile several of the most common versions, but as I've said, like all things Alamo, it's an artichoke that keeps on peeling. Thanks for the heads up and for the contribution you and many others made to that thread. Best regards, Lou
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Post by Herb on May 12, 2012 16:24:51 GMT -5
How & where Crockett died are probably the most asked/discussed topic on the Alamo. Didn't mean to cut the discussion short. But I thought the faq was a good starting point.
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Post by estebans on May 14, 2012 0:44:49 GMT -5
Arrrrrrrrrrrgh!!!! The forum discussion convinced me to buy the book and it's supposed to arrive today . . . but there was a review in the Sunday local paper that spilled the beans on Donovan's Crockett death/Travis line verdicts. I think those posting reviews on this forum have done a deft job of not mentioning those spoilers and I appreciate your efforts.
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Post by jamesg on May 19, 2012 22:37:23 GMT -5
My Donovan Book arrived today.. only thumbed thru before writting this,,,seems good. now I'll do the serious reading. Cheers
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Post by Bill Manuel on May 23, 2012 10:44:52 GMT -5
I am heading to Barnes and Noble to get mine. I can't wait to order one by mail. I called and they have 45 copies here at this San Antonio store. Will be doing a lot of reading tonight! Bill
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Post by Allen Wiener on May 23, 2012 11:04:08 GMT -5
I'm down to the last 50 pages and think this will surpass Walter Lord's "A Time To Stand" as the standard Alamo narrative for some time to come. While there isn't a lot new regarding the main points, Donovan has contributed some compelling analysis and reasoning about what happened and why, put it in great perspective, from both the Mexican and Texan viewpoints. Very good history and really humanized; the participants are flesh and blood people here, not pieces on a chessboard. Although it's been said before, I cannot emphasize strongly enough the need to read the endnotes. These often add much to the text, sift through evidence in more detail, and reveal much of the author's thinking and interpretation. Particularly important are the notes on the second reinforcement theory, Crockett's death, and the conundrum of Moses Rose and Travis's line in the dust. ****SPOILER ALERT**** Ummm, they all get killed again.
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Post by Bill Manuel on May 23, 2012 14:56:07 GMT -5
Thanks Allen.... Well I got my book so I am happy with that. After a 50 mile round trip I stopped at Walmart close to home on way back and they had the book. Hummm and less the price. Bill banging head on table....... but at least I got the book. Hahahaa Allen thanks for the spoiler alert.
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Post by Allen Wiener on May 23, 2012 15:35:38 GMT -5
When enough of us have finished the book, it should provide plenty of grist for out mill and spawn some lively discussion here.
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Post by Rich Curilla on May 23, 2012 16:25:18 GMT -5
Although it's been said before, I cannot emphasize strongly enough the need to read the endnotes. These often add much to the text, sift through evidence in more detail, and reveal much of the author's thinking and interpretation. Well, I got the book yesterday at Jim's talk and book signing at the Twigg Book Store at Pearl Brewery in San Antonio and have had an interesting phenomenon. In my first browse, I thought I would just check out his notes -- and I got hooked. I often cannot "put a book down," but this is the first time I haven't been able to put it's notes down, before even reading the book.
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Post by David Bryan Singleton on May 24, 2012 17:32:08 GMT -5
I wish the notes were numbered or even better I had another copy where I could have the notes pages open and the book open to go back and forth. Book is easy to read. This book will certainly revive the How did Davy Die discussions. I went "ahead" and read the notes and while he goes into detail about how he develped his conclusions, I still hold to other works with the opposite view. Tonight I am going to read the Line story and the Moses Rose story.
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Post by mjbrathwaite on May 25, 2012 2:40:34 GMT -5
It's so much easier when the notes are at the bottom of the page rather than at the back of the book. Still, it sounds like an interesting book, and I've just ordered a copy.
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Post by Allen Wiener on May 25, 2012 9:04:01 GMT -5
I keep a bookmark at the back of the book in the endnotes for the chapter I'm reading; it's easy to flip back and forth that way. The very long endnotes that are used today (wisely, I think) would never fit in the old bottom-of-the-page footnote format.
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Post by estebans on May 25, 2012 10:39:20 GMT -5
There's a ca. 1940 novel by Flann O'Brien--The Third Policeman, IIRC--that has footnotes because academia is one of the things he's satirizing, and at one point there's a fascinating footnote that you read and read and when you finish, you're four or five pages ahead of where you started and you can't recall what was going on in the main text and have to go back and find it, and of course the footnote ultimately turns out to have nothing to do with the story. I'm afraid that layers of commentary and metacommentary threaten to do that to footnotes on a subject like the Alamo, even if Donovan is trying to dispense with existing commentary and analyze the sources anew. And I have trouble following the main text of a heavily-footnoted book in digital format if I'm interested in the footnotes at all.
I do wish Donovan had done the "Notes to Pages __-__" headers thang instead of only putting chapter numbers and titles in amongst the notes--that's what makes his endnotes truly cumbersome for me. I also wished for more indexing by topic as well as names of people and places; but then I realized his book is probably written partly in reaction to other recent writers' foregrounding excruciating correctness of military and architectural detail, and demonstrates that it is indeed time for someone to do a good job of telling the story by focusing on all the people involved again, gracefully incorporating what's been learned about everything over the last half-century.
I think he handles issues of political correctness really sensibly too, so that it's up to date thematically without berating the reader. Brigido Guerrero shows up when he talks his way into surviving the battle, and then drops out of the narrative the same way he largely dropped out of the historical record; he's simply included in the story, with no hectoring commentary on why other historians left him out, even in the endnotes. That's really handled well in his Custer book too.
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Post by sloanrodgers on May 25, 2012 18:14:54 GMT -5
How & where Crockett died are probably the most asked/discussed topic on the Alamo. Didn't mean to cut the discussion short. But I thought the faq was a good starting point. Tom Kailbourn once had me locate an old Alamo diagram at the State Archives that noted Crockett's violent demise atop the wall in front of the chapel. I can't remember where his research went from there, but it was initially an intriguing idea if Davy didn't like to be hemmed in by confining walls and buildings.
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Post by Jim Boylston on Jun 1, 2012 15:50:13 GMT -5
I just finished reading "Blood of Heroes" this morning. I'd highly recommend it. As others have mentioned, don't short change yourself--read the notes! Donovan's book really stands out with the prominence given the Mexican Army in the narrative. He clearly explains not only their movements, but the dynamics within the Mexican command. Very informative. Plus, it's a good read. Jim
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