|
Post by Chuck T on Nov 19, 2011 11:00:26 GMT -5
Having Robert Shaw play Custer would be like Daffy Duck playing Teddy Roosevelt. No, Daffy would have been better.
|
|
|
Post by bobster021 on Nov 19, 2011 18:08:34 GMT -5
Daffy would have also been a huge improvement over Richard Mulligan, the comic actor who portrayed Custer as a delusional psychotic in Little Big Man.
|
|
|
Post by loucapitano on Nov 20, 2011 13:43:25 GMT -5
I go to the hospital for a few days and look at the lively banter I missed. Here's my catch-up two cents, mostly in reverse order. I didn't know Robert Shaw's Custer was filmed in Spain. That might explain why Fort Lincoln is a huge wooden stockade built in a desert with no timber in sight. (Actually, a lot of westerns put stockade forts in absurd places...except for Fort Courage which was perfect.) I agree "Son of the Morning Star" came closest to several Custer books and theories that appeared at that time. Recent archeology has revised some of the action at LBH that day, but it did a good job and was helped by the 4 hour time slot. Shooting the Alamo as a mini-series could be done and might be accomplished in our lifetime. Let HBO give it a try. Maybe one of us could be technical advisor. Look at what a great job they're doing with "Boardwalk Empire." The recent HBO mini-series "Band of Brothers" and "Pacific" are masterpieces. I like to think it all started when "The Winds of War" and "War and Remembrance" were made which practically went chapter by chapter through Herman Wouk's two masterworks. Allen, I knew someone would spot that foolish San Jacinto reference in "The Comencharos." But what other way was there to let John Wayne use his custom Winchester and six-gun? I guess Glenn Ford had to suffer the same historical anachronisms with his Colt revolver. Did anyone notice that when he shot his six-gun, the women fought with muzzle loaders? Actually, I was impressed with the first 20 minutes the first time I saw the movie. It looked like a pretty good depiction of the desperate plight of the Alamo and the dramatic "line in the dust." But once I saw those six-shooters, the movie became a joke that sickens me to this day. I should burn my VHS copy, but it was a gift by a well meaning person. Sorry, but Errol Flynn was the best Custer...by Hollywood standards. He doesn't fare too well with history. But it was a rousing picture! "Your soldier won his last battle...afterall." Lou Capitano - by the way, the tests turned out negative
|
|
|
Post by Chuck T on Nov 20, 2011 14:19:34 GMT -5
Oddly enough I agree about Flynn being the best Custer. Had he had the script of Son of the Morning Star, or even a good script he could have done wonders with the part.
We covered this ground well before on this site, but it's worth repeating. "Boots On" was one of a series of movies that were designed to gear us up as a nation for war. Sergeant York and Confessions of a Nazi Spy focused on this, as well as a number of others. Even the classic Casablanca had this theme and would have been among the others had it been released nine months earlier. It was not about fact, it was as someone above said how we Americans saw ourselves.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Young on Nov 20, 2011 16:37:25 GMT -5
When we filmed North and South and the "Churubusco" battle scene, we got into the discussion about why the two young lieutenants of Infantry would have Colt Walker revolvers (which had not made it to Mexico yet, and besides, only went to the USMR and Hays Texas Mounted Volunteers). Response was because that is what the director wanted and one of the actors wanted a pistol.
I like Man From the Alamo because it does treat the Alamo a little more gritty and honest-six shooters and converted Trapdoor Springfields aside. And while it quickly turns into another B Western, the idea that it is the Tejano boy who tells the truth and stands by "the coward" that makes it stand out.
Well, Custer of the West is at least in Cinerama! And no praise for Wayne Maunder as Custer?
|
|
|
Post by mjbrathwaite on Nov 20, 2011 17:05:45 GMT -5
The "Custer" series starring Wayne Maunder attracted numerous protests from Indians about the way Custer was portrayed as being sympathetic towards them. I was amused by the episode in which Custer and Crazy Horse joined forces against a common enemy! In the finish, poor ratings took the series off the air.
|
|
|
Post by Rich Curilla on Nov 21, 2011 2:40:19 GMT -5
I like Man From the Alamo because it does treat the Alamo a little more gritty and honest-six shooters and converted Trapdoor Springfields aside. And while it quickly turns into another B Western, the idea that it is the Tejano boy who tells the truth and stands by "the coward" that makes it stand out. Man From the Alamo stands up pretty well as a movie Western. A Bud Boetticher Western does have merit in the film world as a fair-to-middlin', formula, B-Western -- just holds little prestige in Alamo history. What it did do for us is in the area of set design. Their soundstage Alamo provided Disney with the "formula" for building an Alamo set on a stage -- two high walls with the gate on the left and a painted cyclorama as a background. Disney's Davy Crocett at the Alamo set bested the 1953 version by providing enough room between the walls and the cyc. so that exterior scenes (the outsides of the walls) could be shot on the same set. Then The Last Command went Disney one better by building their two walls on a Texas ranch, and doing a matte painting to show San Antonio in the distance. Wayne topped 'em all by building the whole fort and town of Bexar (albeit a faux Bexar and in the wrong direction).
|
|
|
Post by Rich Curilla on Nov 21, 2011 2:47:39 GMT -5
And of course Michael Corenblith's late sets for The Alamo ('04) topped 'em all in historical accuracy despite it's few *cheats* which seem to render it unacceptable to many Alamo buffs, but go largely unnoticed by normal people.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Young on Nov 21, 2011 12:44:51 GMT -5
The "Custer" series starring Wayne Maunder attracted numerous protests from Indians about the way Custer was portrayed as being sympathetic towards them. I was amused by the episode in which Custer and Crazy Horse joined forces against a common enemy! In the finish, poor ratings took the series off the air. Much like the Richard Calrson series on Ranald Mackenzie...
|
|
|
Post by mjbrathwaite on Nov 22, 2011 1:38:10 GMT -5
Did "Mackenzie's Raiders" attract protests? I did watch it when it was shown in New Zealand in the mid 1960s, but don't remember a lot about it, other than seeing Iron Eyes Cody in it. The Wayne Maunder series came on when I was writing my M.A. thesis on Hollywood's treatment of the Indians, so I paid particular attention to that. I'm thinking of updating and publishing my thesis, and would be interested to hear about any Indian reaction to "Mackenzie's Raiders", as I don't recall coming across any mention of the series when I did the original research. With regard to Iron Eyes Cody, he wrote a book called "My Life As a Hollywood Indian", which came out shortly after I submitted my thesis, which was a response to the predominantly liberal and anti-Hollywood views on the subject which seemed to be all anyone had written previously. Cody's book reiterated some comments liberals would have found contentious in my work, and I was thrilled to find support from such a notable Indian expert, but then a few years ago I learned he was not really an Indian at all!
|
|
|
Post by Allen Wiener on Nov 22, 2011 9:10:05 GMT -5
I seem to recall that Cody was actually Italian, thus part of a long Hollywood tradition of Italian "Indians."
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Young on Nov 22, 2011 9:34:42 GMT -5
People really weren't listening to Indian groups in the 1950's...but from converstations with members of the Kickapoo Nation (both the Mexican/Texas/ and Kansas and the Oklahoma groups) it was not a real high point. The series avoided the raids into Mexico to destroy the Kickapoo Villages and of course Palo Duro. Interactions with Indians are basicly "helping to understan the Indians" and include Mackenzie and Indian chiefs (including Quanan[sic] Parker). Most of the series had Mackenzie going over the Rio Grande to pursue bandits and outlaws (in contrast to him really going into Mexico to destory the Kickapoo).
The Kickapoo people have been traditionally a "closed" group and have only really opened up in the last 20 years (especially the Mexican Band). I teach a workshop on the Kickapoo (the original two Midwestern bands, the Prairie and Vermilion) lived in our area from the mid-1700's until yje 1830's. While the Kickapoo did not make an outcry on the series (the Comanche and Apache were featured as the indian tribes in the series did not either, I think that if the series had been on in the 1960's, you would have seen more protest from the Indian community.
Then again, it was a TV series that was set in Brackettville (Fort Clark).
|
|
|
Post by mjbrathwaite on Nov 22, 2011 16:28:23 GMT -5
Thanks Allen and Kevin. It doesn't sound like I need to look too closely at "Mackenzie's Raiders" when I revise my book, as it sounds like yet another example of the type of portrayals I wrote about. It occurs to me that what I wrote yesterday might have given the impression that my study is pro-Hollywood and anti-Indian, but it's not: the standard version of the story 30 years ago (when I wrote it) was one in which film-makers were the villains and Indians were the victims. My version was a tale of mutual misunderstandings in which Indians kept complaining about the inaccuracies in films, and white film-makers, unable to understand Indian thought patterns or concerns, could respond only with sympathetic but still inaccurate portrayals. When Indians had become involved in film-making, they hadn't made films about Indians, although I am aware that this has changed in recent years.
|
|
|
Post by loucapitano on Nov 23, 2011 12:34:12 GMT -5
Whether the Indian portrayals were antagonistic or sympathetic, they were virutually all inaccurate. If for no other reason, virtually the only Indians portrayed are the southwestern and plains tribes. Unless Hollywood is reviving "Last of the Mohicans" Eastern and Southern tribes are practically ignored, or simply portrayed superficially. mjb...Then again, Hollywood is in the entertainment business, so it "prints the legend." I wish you well in your research and hope you can include a little reference to some of the other tribes that interacted with the earlier white settlers on the seventeenth and eighteenth century going back to the first Thanksgiving. By the way, HAPPY THANKSGIVING to all my friends who put up with my blather. You are all gentlement and scholars and I cherish my association with you.
|
|
|
Post by Allen Wiener on Nov 23, 2011 16:15:42 GMT -5
Same here, Lou. Have a great day!
|
|