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Post by estebans on Jul 12, 2011 8:11:59 GMT -5
Thanks for the original of the later letter--why do I see it dated 1889 in de la Teja's book? I wish we had the equivalent for the 1837 account. It occurs to me that I didn't mean to imply that Seguin had no grasp of what his aide might have sent under his name, just that whatever JNS said was likely to be mediated by translation. My experience has been that people have more trouble than you'd expect when writing a play-by-play memoir of a life-changing event in a hurry, when it comes to indicating chronology clearly and accurately--especially when there's a second language involved. Nuances of verb tense and time cues don't translate easily.
The peach orchard seems to fit into the story so readily that I'm just surprised it escaped earlier mention. But I don't find the DeShields story about Lockhart very plausible even if Williams repeats it. I'd like to hear if there was a single instance of anyone publicly refuting accounts of major events in Seguin's memoirs before he retired to Mexico, because it seems like he publicly challenged everyone to do so and no one did--instead there's somebody like Sutherland saying yes, the burial pretty much happened that way.
Stephen Schneider
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Post by Kevin Young on Jul 12, 2011 9:42:14 GMT -5
Date-probably because I was so busy making sure I typed the Spanish correctly I mistyped the date-1889. My bad.
Certainly Eugene C. Barker and L.W.Kemp went around and around on the whole issue with Archbishop Arthur Drossaerts in 1936 with all parties involved retiring to their positions.
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Post by Seguin on Jul 12, 2011 21:13:25 GMT -5
The differing accounts given by Juan Seguin can be rectified by accepting each account on its own merits and realizing that there were two separate burials; a small "private" ceremony in 1836 with the remains placed in an urn and buried beneath the alter, and a public ceremony with full honors almost a full year later.
It always seemed odd to me that the charred remains of Alamo defenders would be left untouched for 11 months, subjected to the buzzards and the elements, and that it would take an order issued from Felix Huston to get Juan Seguin to inter the remains of his fallen men; Juan Abamillo, Juan Badillo, Antonio Fuentes, Andres Nava, Damacio Jimenez, and possibly Gregorio Esparza. Good point, Hiram. It´s certainly possible there were two separate burials. I never thought of that. It is indeed a bit odd the remains of the defenders were left for 11 months, subjected to animals and the elements, before they were collected and buried (what was left of the remains 11 months later). Another good point. We all know how easy it is to make mistakes in translations. Maybe bad translation of the two accounts are the reason why they don´t fit one another. Sutherland´s account and DeShields version of Sutherland´s account, adds to the mystery, I think. There´s the question of the location of the Peach orchard, which Seguin does´nt mention (at least not in the English translations of his two accounts), and De shield´s version even says a Captain Lockhart collected the remains and buried them, and not Seguin. |
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Post by Blacksmith John on Jul 14, 2011 11:38:02 GMT -5
Very surprising to me that Seguin did not follow through with his promise to build a permanent monument at the burial site--kind of important there Juan, otherwise the place will be lost, which is exactly what happened.  |
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Post by Kevin Young on Jul 14, 2011 12:18:18 GMT -5
Very surprising to me that Seguin did not follow through with his promise to build a permanent monument at the burial site--kind of important there Juan, otherwise the place will be lost, which is exactly what happened. Well, Juan was a little busy...and then came 1842. |
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Post by pancho on Oct 10, 2011 16:44:07 GMT -5
Is anyone aware of any DNA testing of any of the remains as mentioned by the original poster? That science has certainly made significant advances recently and results might be very interesting if there is, in fact, any DNA available.
Bob Blair
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