Demise of the Fab Four

[Paul Sylvain]

Boy -- putting together a solo playlist would be tough, seeing as I've only owned a couple of solo albums among the four. The songs that come to mind for me (not in any particular order):

-- "Imagine" (Lennon/"Imagine")
-- "Stand By Me" (Lennon/"Rock 'n' Roll")
-- "Woman" (Lennon/"Double Fantasy)
-- "Give Peace A Chance" (Lennon/Plastic Ono Band)
-- "Maybe I'm Amazed" (McCartney/"McCartney")
-- "Give Ireland Back To The Irish" (McCartney/)
-- "Jet" (McCartney/"Band On The Run")

[Jim Boylston]

Funny, Paul, I had "The Luck of the Irish" on my Lennon list, but decided to pare it down to 10 songs.

I have most all the solo stuff from all 4 guys, but I picked from songs on my iPod.

Jim

[Paul Sylvain]

Aug 29, 2010 17:22:03 GMT -5 Jim Boylston said:

Funny, Paul, I had "The Luck of the Irish" on my Lennon list, but decided to pare it down to 10 songs.

I have most all the solo stuff from all 4 guys, but I picked from songs on my iPod.

Jim

I don't know if McCartney ever included "Give Ireland Back To The Irish" on a Wings LP or not, but it was released as a single in the band's earliest days, and wound up getting banned on the BBC. It's probably about as political as Paul ever got.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtSrKv7XR5Y

[Jim Boylston]

I don't know if McCartney ever included "Give Ireland Back To The Irish" on a Wings LP or not, but it was released as a single in the band's earliest days, and wound up getting banned on the BBC. It's probably about as political as Paul ever got.

It wasn't on a proper album, maybe a compilation. That was a hard single to find, even when it was first released. And yeah, that was one of McCartney's few political statements.

I think Paul preferred to stay popular with the public, whereas Lennon was doing everything he could to rattle people. Some of it was genuine, a lot of it was juvenile and pretentious. These guys were, however, fairly young at the time...mid twenties. At that age, everyone still has a lot of growing up to do.

Considering the circumstances, I think all 4 Beatles could have handled things in a much worse manner. It's just a shame they didn't have anyone they could trust guiding them after Epstein's death.

On a related note, I met John's son Julian back in the eighties, right after "Valotte" came out. He was polite, and very unassuming...a sweet kid, who also had his share of challenges while growing up.

Jim

[Allen Wiener]

The way Lennon pretty much wrote off his older son, Julian, is one of the more prominent aspects of his darker side. He didn't even include the kid in his will.

[Allen Wiener]

Aug 29, 2010 16:44:37 GMT -5 Paul Sylvain said:

Boy -- putting together a solo playlist would be tough, seeing as I've only owned a couple of solo albums among the four. The songs that come to mind for me (not in any particular order):

-- "Imagine" "Lennon/"Imagine")
-- "Stand By Me" (Lennon/"Rock 'n' Roll")
-- "Woman" (Lennon/"Double Fantasy)
-- "Give Peace A Chance" (Lennon/Plastic Ono Band)
-- "Maybe I'm Amazed" (McCartney/"McCartney")
-- "Give Ireland Back To The Irish" (McCartney/)
-- "Jet" (McCartney/"Band On The Run")

Paul, it would be equally difficult for me to compose such a list, and I've not only got every sound they ever put on tape, but have listened to it all more than most people ever would want to. I have been away from it so long that I cannot remember that much of it anymore, but looking at these lists all of you are posting does bring back some memories. I'm glad you included "Stand By Me"; it's a real favorite and, if my memory isn't totally shot, I believe an unauthorized (or quasi-bootleg) of some stuff from those R&R Specter sessions was released around the time the official LP came out. The mixes on that may have been different, and better, than the original released version. That's actually a good Lennon LP, despite the absolute insanity of those sessions. Specter was certifiable, even back then. If you want to read a very entertaining account of Lennon's so-called "lost weekend" in L.A., read May Pang's book. I found her quite credible.

Allen

[Paul Sylvain]

Allen --

I fell in love with Lennon' version of "Stand By Me" the first time I heard it, and immediately added it to my band's play list. I still play it with the guys when I hook with them in Maine. man, that rhythm cooks.

"Rock 'n' Roll was one of only two solo Lennon LPs I ever owned.

[Jim Boylston]

Lennon's version of "Stand By Me" made my top 10 too, and when I play it, it's always that arrangement.

I should mention that though I seem to be the McCartney apologist on this thread, most of my favorite Beatle songs come from the primary pen of Lennon. My favorite period is the psychedelic era, especially Lennon's contributions to "Revolver," and singles from that period, "Rain" in particular. The Pepper era singles are also among my faves (Walrus, Strawberry Fields, Baby You're a Rich Man, etc.).

I think it's obvious from their respective solo careers that L&M were of great benefit to one another. Each sought the other's approval, and it elevated the work.

Jim

[Jim Boylston]

Allen wrote:

I've not only got every sound they ever put on tape, but have listened to it all more than most people ever would want to.

Yeah, but you stopped buying them after your book was published, which puts me ahead of you in the obsessive/compulsive department. I'll admit, I even have the new Ringo album that came out a couple of months ago. ;D

Jim

[Allen Wiener]

Aug 29, 2010 20:07:53 GMT -5 Jim Boylston said:

Allen wrote:

I've not only got every sound they ever put on tape, but have listened to it all more than most people ever would want to.

Yeah, but you stopped buying them after your book was published, which puts me ahead of you in the obsessive/compulsive department. I'll admit, I even have the new Ringo album that came out a couple of months ago. ;D

Jim

Ya got me there, pard -- which means (wait for it!), YOU'RE CONSULTING COLLABORATOR ON MY NEXT EDITION!!!!

Allen

[Seguin]

"Band on the Run" has never been one of my favorites. I still like McCartney's first solo album, "McCartney," a home-made effort that included 2 songs that were up to his Beatles standards, "Maybe I'm Amazed," and "Every Night," and there are parts of "Ram" that I think are outstanding. Most of the Wings stuff is throwaway...you have to dig through a lot of coal to find the diamonds. I could probably come up with an albums worth of strong songs from the entire Wings catalog.

McCartney has been doing interesting work lately. In addition to "Electric Arguments," I found "Chaos and Creation in the Backyard" to be an exceptional album.

His work with Costello is spread over a few albums, including Costello's "Spike." All their collaborative efforts are worth checking out, and are the strongest tunes on those particular McCartney albums.

I´m glad to hear I´m not the only one who is´nt too fond of the Wings stuff in general.
As for the songs and albums you mention, I´ll see if I can find some of it on Youtube and give it a listen.

I find Lennon''s solo material to be hit and miss. If you discount the early collaborations with Yoko ("Two Virgins," "Life with the Lions," "Wedding Album"), you're left with a patchy catalog. Aside from a couple of live sets (and the live John and Yoko with Frank Zappa and the Mothers is pretty incendiary; definitely worth checking out), there aren't that many strong solo albums in the Lennon catalog. "Plastic Ono Band," is an interesting record, but not one I pull off the shelf often. "Imagine" is a solid effort. "Mind Games" is spotty, about half of "Walls and Bridges" is excellent, "Rock and Roll" was a contractual obligation, "Sometime in NYC" is awful, except for the aforementioned live disc with Zappa. I liked "Double Fantasy," but only half that record is Lennon. Song for song, I don't think Lennon's solo career is any better than McCartney's, and that's not taking commercial appeal into consideration.

Jim

What´s the title of the John and Yoko with Zappa, album?
I´ve got the Zappa, "Playground Psychotics", album, but there´s only one track with the three of them ("Well").

I´ve only got the "Working Class Hero - The Definitive Lennon" 2-CD collection (and the "Rock And Roll" album), but here´s my 10 favorites:

Working Class Hero
Instant Karma
Whatever Gets You Thru The Night
Come Together (live)
Cold Turkey
Imagine
Give Peace A Chance
Power To The People
Stand By Me
Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

[Allen Wiener]

Aug 29, 2010 20:04:54 GMT -5 Jim Boylston said:

Lennon's version of "Stand By Me" made my top 10 too, and when I play it, it's always that arrangement.

I should mention that though I seem to be the McCartney apologist on this thread, most of my favorite Beatle songs come from the primary pen of Lennon. My favorite period is the psychedelic era, especially Lennon's contributions to "Revolver," and singles from that period, "Rain" in particular. The Pepper era singles are also among my faves (Walrus, Strawberry Fields, Baby You're a Rich Man, etc.).

I think it's obvious from their respective solo careers that L&M were of great benefit to one another. Each sought the other's approval, and it elevated the work.

Jim

As I recall, I always had the same reaction. Lennon was like the little girl with the little curl; when he was good, he was very good. BUT, when he was bad. . . .

True, also, that they fed off their competition. Lennon at least said so several times (maybe McCartney did too); if Paul brought in something really good, it forced Lennon to try to top it, and vice-versa. What came out of that is what you hear. That magic could not be captured after the breakup and, as you say, Lennon's drug use and infatuation with Yoko and her loony ideas about avant guard art had a negative impact on what might have been. Yet, that's what the guy wanted.

Allen

[Jim Boylston]

What´s the title of the John and Yoko with Zappa, album?
I've got the Zappa, "Playground Psychotics", album, but there´s only one track with the three of them ("Well").

Hans, "Sometime in NYC" was a 2 record set from John and Yoko, and the 2nd disc contained live tracks with Zappa and the Mothers recorded at the Fillmore.

Zappa released his own mix of those tracks (some with different titles) years later on "Playground Psychotics." The songs that feature John and Yoko are "Well," "Say Please," Aaawk," "Scumbag," and the hilariously titled, "A Small Eternity with Yoko Ono."

Zappa's mix is cleaner, he dropped a lot of the reverb and crowd noise. Personally, I like the Zappa mix better. Lennon was a great rock and roll singer, and "Well" is a good example of that.

Jim

[Jim Boylston]

True, also, that they fed off their competition. Lennon at least said so several times (maybe McCartney did too); if Paul brought in something really good, it forced Lennon to try to top it, and vice-versa. What came out of that is what you hear. That magic could not be captured after the breakup and, as you say, Lennon's drug use and infatuation with Yoko and her loony ideas about avant guard art had a negative impact on what might have been. Yet, that's what the guy wanted.

Oddly enough, I think Lennon's immersion into avant-garde was also an attempt to keep up with McCartney. Lennon was (in his own view) saddled with a wife and child while McCartney was the man-about-town, hobnobbing with artists in swinging London. McCartney was listening to Stockhausen and creating musical collages with tape loops, buying Magritte paintings (back when they were cheap), and hanging out at galleries (I think he invested in Indica, in fact). Once Lennon jumped in, after meeting Yoko (at the Indica?), he took it off the charts in an effort to out-do his rival.

Now Lennon has the reputation as the avant garde Beatle and McCartney is the mainstream guy. McCartney, reportedly, really resents the idea that Lennon was cutting edge and that he wasn't bringing anything new to the table. Barry Miles' McCartney biography (of which McCartney approved) goes to great lengths to point out McCartney's avant garde bona fides.

Harrison thought it was all a waste of time, and repeatedly remarked, "avant garde is French for bulls**t."

Jim

[Allen Wiener]

Aug 29, 2010 22:51:52 GMT -5 Jim Boylston said:

Harrison thought it was all a waste of time, and repeatedly remarked that "avant garde was French for bulls**t.

And, of course, Ono went on to prove him right!