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Post by Chuck T on Apr 22, 2010 14:09:01 GMT -5
Allen: I visited last in late August and a full program from the staff was available. September should be no different.
My binoculars were a pair that my dad purchased Navy surplus after the Korean War. He gave them to me when I was commissioned and I carried them on each of my assingments with troops. They are designed for those on watch and as such very powerful. I would not think you would need quite that quality. Check with your local optical shop they usually carry them or on the net.
As to a good map. One I purchased at the park is entitled Little Bighorn Battlefield Map - Archeological Finds and Historic Locations. It is a pictomap with the characteristics of both an aerial photo and a topographic map rolled into one. As a bonus virtually every place of any significance is clearly marked. I paid 8 bucks for it and it is probably more now but well worth it. I hold in in such high regard that it is a hand on my desk at all times.
I would further suggest that you go on Bing or Google Earth and look at the overheads. Don't remember if they have any birdeye views or not as LBH is quite remote.
Also keep in mind that the distance from the Custer Site to the Reno Bluff Site is about four miles. In addition from Last Stand Hill to Calhoun Hill along Battle Ridge is better than a mile. You may not wish to walk the entire field. I believe you would be best served by a combination of walk and ride.
In September it is still hot. Wear light colored loose fitting clothing and be sure to wear a hat with a full brim all around and sunglasses on most days is a must. You may also want to apply sunscreen. At higher altitudes the sun can really be dangerous and sneak up on you.
I would suggest you plan to stay in Sheridan, WY about fifty minutes from the field. Accomidation in Crow Agency or Hardin are not up to standard. There is a very good Holiday in Sheridan with good food and an indoor pool. Also plan, if time permits, the Rosebud fight which is a little to the south and east of LBH (Don't plan it for the same day) and the Fetterman/Fort Phil Kearney site which is in Buffalo, WY slightly south of Sheridan and just off the Interstate. If you are going home south after you LBH visit it's worth two hours of your time. By the way if you views of Custer's performance at LBH are like most Fetterman makes Custer look like one of the Great Captains - Frederick The Great at least.
I will expect a full after action report on your return.
Chuck
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Post by Chuck T on Apr 22, 2010 14:41:29 GMT -5
Allen: One thing I forgot above. If you have not already done so read Godfrey's article that first appeared in Century Magazine in 1892. It is probably on line but also available in total in "Of Garryowen In Glory" by LTC Melbourne C. Chandler. It is well know that after the three way split Custer divided his immediate command into two squadrons under Yates and Keogh. Godfrey "hints" in that article based upon trail evidence that these two squadrons did not follow the same avenue of approach. The park blub that you get with the price of admission has a nice little map that shows the alternate route of approach theory. Most dismiss or overlook it. I do not in that it makes very good tactical sense to me. When I asked a Park Service person about it he blew me off as it being fantasy. It is certainly not the "approved" school solution. I would be very interested in your after visit thoughts on this matter.
Chuck
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Post by Allen Wiener on Apr 22, 2010 17:19:45 GMT -5
Thanks again, Chuck; I am keeping all of your notes; this is a big help.
Allen
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Post by Allen Wiener on Apr 23, 2010 14:35:22 GMT -5
Chuck,
I phoned LBH today and they are sending me the map you recommended; it's still only $7.95!! Amazing. There's smaller 50-cent map he's throwing in as well. So, I'll have plenty of time to get familiar with this before I get there.
Thanks again for the help!
Allen
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Post by Chuck T on Apr 23, 2010 14:47:59 GMT -5
A through map recon is a must. The fifty cent map must be the PH handout map. If it has a very good paint of Last Stand Hill from the troopers perspective on the reverse side it is the one I told you about with the alternate trail. Try to avoid the period map they have for sale. Although I have used like "period map reproductions" in the past for Civil War Battlefield (they are in watercolors) I find this one substandard.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Apr 23, 2010 14:53:09 GMT -5
Chuck,
Regarding the Godfrey article, I notice that he revised the article in 1908 and that version is included in Paul Hutton's "The Custer Reader." It is annotated there to show what changes Godfrey made and, in his introduction to that section of the book, Hutton notes that the later iteration is even more laudatory toward Custer than the original. This is a very long essay and I plan to set aside some time to read it through and focus on it. In fact, I've got a lot of reading and re-reading to do before I go there.
RE: the maps, I'll look those over carefully and coordinate that with other sources so that I get a feeling of some familiarity with the place before I go, know what I'm looking for, and recognize it all when I see it. I understand that it is not possible to enter the area where the Indian village was because it is now on Crow Reservation land and a special permit is required. Similarly, the Crow's Nest is on private land, but the area from Reno-Benteen Hill onward is all open, so that a visitor can get a real understanding of how large the battlefield really was and the terrain.
Allen
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Post by Chuck T on Apr 23, 2010 15:44:12 GMT -5
Think you have a handle on most things. The Garryowen Post Office is the approximate location of the first circle of the village. Beside I90 there is a frontage road that leads you to the park entrance near the junction of I90 and Highway 212. As you follow that road from GOPO the village is between you and the river. It is private land as is the area to the south of GOPO which is the area of the timber fight and the retreat crossing. This is really the only area of the field that has changed much since 1876. The course of the river has changed several times over the years but it has not taken away anything essential to a basic understanding of the battle in my view.
I have never been to the Crow's Nest. It is quite a distance from the field. Except to say that you have been there I see no advantage. You can see it on the far horizon from the Reno Site (barely).
As I said before there are really two parks The Reno/Benteen portion and the larger Custer portion. A road connects them which is park land. From the shoulder of the road onward is private. Along the road there are plenty of vantage points where you can see everything important. The only thing I would like to get a real close look at that you can't is Medicine Tail Coulee Ford where E & F tried to cross and attack into the village but were repulsed. This action precipitated Gall's movement away from Reno leaving only a small holding force behind, so that he could concentrate on the more immediate threat of Custer. This movement by Gall and Crazy Horse getting his act together at the northern end of the village put paid to Custer. They enveloped him from front (CH) and rear (G). The indians having interior lines and not overwhelming numbers are what beat Custer. Once you visit I think you will be in full agreement.
One thing concerning Godfrey and all the others who were participants. There was an unspoken agreement among the officers in particular that no one would speak ill of Custer as long as Libby was alive. She in fact outlived them all passing away in the mid-1930's. The one mystery I would love to unravel is what is it that Weir (who probably had the hots for Libby) wanted to tell her "when next we meet". Weir was a Custer man through and through very loyal, unfortunately he died late in 1876 and never saw Libby. My money is on what he and others saw at Weir Point. That's why I say take a good pair of field glasses. They had to know that Custer was in big trouble. You can see the monument from Weir Point althought it is about two miles from Last Stand Hill. Given that it was obscured by powder smoke and such, they must have heard the gunfire and other signs of battle. My camera with a long range lens also picked up the monument and I am looking at the pictures I took as I write this. Of couse in all fairness I should state that there were a hell of a lot of pissed off indians in between. Godfrey was with Weir see what he says.
Post when you get the map(s) and we can go over them together if you wish
Chuck
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Post by TRK on Apr 23, 2010 16:04:25 GMT -5
Allen, Google Earth has pretty decent satellite imagery of the LBH Battlefield. If you have Google Earth downloaded in your computer and know how to navigate it, you can explore the battlefield and surrounding areas of interest in pretty intimate detail. (Unfortunately, the quality of the imagery is not at present of very fine resolution; there are battlefields in Mexico, for example, that have far greater resolution, not to mention the ability to go to "street view", meaning you can take a virtual ground-level tour with 360-degree viewing capability.) Another plus of Google Earth is, if you arrive at a screen view that you'd like to save or print out, you can do so easily.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Apr 23, 2010 20:39:02 GMT -5
Thanks Tom; that's another good lead. I ought to be better prepared for the LBH than Custer was!
Allen
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Post by Chuck T on Apr 23, 2010 22:02:26 GMT -5
Allen: Custer was prepared. It was just for the wrong thing.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Apr 23, 2010 22:42:06 GMT -5
That's a good way of putting it, Chuck!
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Post by Hiram on May 1, 2010 8:32:23 GMT -5
Happy to see Alamo visitors are still asking informed questions! The answer may be in John Carroll's book, Custer in Texas. G.A.C. was accused in a letter published in The National Republican in 1866 of being publicly drunk and speaking at a rally of former Southern rebels in the Alamo City. The charge was answered by Custer in a letter published in the Army-Navy Journal of 3 March 1866. The section pertaining to the question of his presence in San Antonio is as follows:
"There are several facts and reasons why the imputation is unjust, untrue and inapplicable. First I have never been nearer San Antonio than I am at the present moment (eighty miles). Second, the charge of drunkenness is wholly unfounded, whether at San Antonio or elsewhere, as I have abstained from the use of spiritous liquors for several years.
From Custer in Texas: An Interrupted Narrative, compiled, edited and written by John M. Carroll:
My personal thanks go out to quinceymorris for directing me towards Custer in Texas, and to Marilyn in the DRT Library who found the reference and gave me a photocopy.
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Post by Kevin Young on May 1, 2010 9:38:56 GMT -5
Always happy to help.
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Post by terryandrews55 on May 15, 2010 14:11:53 GMT -5
I just got a fairl y contemporary book called'hard knocks'in the post today.The author says that Custer knew he was going to be court martialled when he got back which is why he rashly went all out to win a signal victory against the indians as this would obviously go in his favour.Don't know how accurate this is. Can't help thinking of the similarities with the opening of the Zulu war,overconfidence,insufficient reconaissance and seeming contempt for the prowess of the natives leading to defeat at Isandhlwana.Rorkes Drift was elevated deliberately to overshadow the disaster at Isandhlwana however-something that didnt occur with the Reno/Benteen stand.
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Post by Chuck T on May 15, 2010 15:42:58 GMT -5
I would not put to much stock in it or for that matter any money on it. The troubles with the Grant Administration are well known, but I have never heard courts martial anywhere. One must ask the question for what reason?
You know, I can be very hard on Custer, but blaming him for all that led to the defeat at the Little Big Horn, is like laying all the blame on Abraham Lincoln for the defeat at the First Battle of Bull Run.
Overconfidence is difficult to determine. You must go into battle with a certain confidence of victory. There are limits of course. I may be in a minority, and that's OK, but I do not think Custer was overconfident.
There is no such thing as sufficient reconaissance. Ask Wolfpack. He was in the reconaissance business.
Anyone who held the Sioux and Cheyenne in contempt usually did not live long enough to prove their point. Ask Captain William Judd Fetterman about contempt of the Sioux. He bragged that with eighty men he could ride across the Sioux Nation. As fate would have it he got his eighty men and he got about a mile and a half
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