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Post by Allen Wiener on Aug 30, 2010 7:58:47 GMT -5
Thanks Gary; that is quite different than the Hollywood treatment. The Texians must have had something more than surprise going for them.
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Post by Kevin Young on Aug 30, 2010 10:05:51 GMT -5
Colonel Pedro Delgado's remarks about the start of the battle:
At nine o'clock A. M. General Cos came in with reinforcement of about five hundred men. His arrival was greeted by the roll of drums and with joyful shouts. As it was represented to his excellency that these men had not slept the night before, he instructed them to stack their arms, remove their accoutrements, and go to sleep quietly in the adjoining grove. No important incident took place until half-past four P.M. At this fatal moment the bugler on the right signaled the enemy's advance upon that wing. His excellency and staff were asleep. The great number of the men were also sleeping. Of the rest, some were eating, others were scattered in the woods in search of boughs to prepare shelter. Our line was composed of musket-stacks. Our cavalry were riding bareback to and from water.
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Post by garyzaboly on Aug 30, 2010 13:56:56 GMT -5
Colonel Pedro Delgado's remarks about the start of the battle: At nine o'clock A. M. General Cos came in with reinforcement of about five hundred men. His arrival was greeted by the roll of drums and with joyful shouts. As it was represented to his excellency that these men had not slept the night before, he instructed them to stack their arms, remove their accoutrements, and go to sleep quietly in the adjoining grove. No important incident took place until half-past four P.M. At this fatal moment the bugler on the right signaled the enemy's advance upon that wing. His excellency and staff were asleep. The great number of the men were also sleeping. Of the rest, some were eating, others were scattered in the woods in search of boughs to prepare shelter. Our line was composed of musket-stacks. Our cavalry were riding bareback to and from water. Right, Kevin, Cos' men were virtually useless when the Texians attacked, and the rest had to scurry into position. Some additional commentary on the charge as given by Texian veterans: * George B. Erath recalled that the Mexicans began firing when the Texian line was 150 yards from the breastwork. "Their resistance did not last more than ten minutes." *Moses Lapham said that "the enemy opened their fire at the distance of 300 or 400 yards." * Walter P. Lane recalled, "when we got in half a mile of them their artillery and infantry opened on us." *James W. Winters made an interesting observation of the Mexican dead behind the breastwork: "We found as many as five ends of cartridges where each man lay, so supposed that each man had fired at us as many as 5 times before we reached them." *"The Mexicans opened fire as quick as we came in sight and continued by platoons. We ran up within 80 yards and halted and at the command, 'each get your man,' we fired, and nearly decimated their ranks," wrote James Monroe Hill. "The enemy fired their cannon five times only. It was loaded the sixth time and primed---the man who held the match was killed by a boy and the piece taken." Letter to Richmond Enquirer , June 4, 1836 So apparently, judging by the above testimony, the Mexicans did present an organzied front for at least five rounds of musketry and artillery. Not much, but certainly far from the scattered resistance we usually see onscreen and in illustrations.
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Post by Kevin Young on Aug 30, 2010 14:17:12 GMT -5
I have always felt that the way the Texans hit the Mexican lines helped--it appears that Sherman's men, in the wooded area on the Mexican right, made "first contact" which would throw Mexican attention in that direction. Then the cavalry hit on the left-attention now diverted in two opposite directions-then, the Texan centre appeared...now real problems.
Yes-the comment about five broken cartridges at each of the Mexican dead on the line is interesting. If a soldado was loading and firing three times a minute...or even if they were firing organizaed vollies...it is still a matter of minutes. But the notion they all ran...doesn't hold up.
Have you looked at the transcripts of the Labadie/Forbes court case?
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Post by garyzaboly on Aug 30, 2010 14:31:42 GMT -5
I have always felt that the way the Texans hit the Mexican lines helped--it appears that Sherman's men, in the wooded area on the Mexican right, made "first contact" which would throw Mexican attention in that direction. Then the cavalry hit on the left-attention now diverted in two opposite directions-then, the Texan centre appeared...now real problems. Yes-the comment about five broken cartridges at each of the Mexican dead on the line is interesting. If a soldado was loading and firing three times a minute...or even if they were firing organizaed vollies...it is still a matter of minutes. But the notion they all ran...doesn't hold up. Have you looked at the transcripts of the Labadie/Forbes court case? Not really, Kevin; from other veterans' accounts I've been trying to piece together the battlefield and the progress of the battle itself for a drawing. Evidently a major factor in the Mexican breakdown was that the Texians came up a SLOPE at them, and since the soldados already fired high to begin with, their muskets did little damage at that critical moment. One Texian said that the most damage done by Mexican muskets was when Houston's lines were on the descending slope, before climbing that final rise.
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Post by Herb on Aug 30, 2010 14:59:13 GMT -5
Something else that may have played a role - depending on how late the attack really did begin is sunlight. A few years ago when Steve Hardin took the ABA to San Jacinto and then marched the group from the Texian lines to the Mexican lines, I noticed that the late afternoon sun would have been directly in the eyes of the Mexican firing line.
Attack times in the various accounts seem to be all over the place, but if the attack was launched later in the day, the Texians would have had a significant advantage.
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Post by Kevin Young on Aug 30, 2010 15:41:45 GMT -5
I have always felt that the way the Texans hit the Mexican lines helped--it appears that Sherman's men, in the wooded area on the Mexican right, made "first contact" which would throw Mexican attention in that direction. Then the cavalry hit on the left-attention now diverted in two opposite directions-then, the Texan centre appeared...now real problems. Yes-the comment about five broken cartridges at each of the Mexican dead on the line is interesting. If a soldado was loading and firing three times a minute...or even if they were firing organizaed vollies...it is still a matter of minutes. But the notion they all ran...doesn't hold up. Have you looked at the transcripts of the Labadie/Forbes court case? Not really, Kevin; from other veterans' accounts I've been trying to piece together the battlefield and the progress of the battle itself for a drawing. Evidently a major factor in the Mexican breakdown was that the Texians came up a SLOPE at them, and since the soldados already fired high to begin with, their muskets did little damage at that critical moment. One Texian said that the most damage done by Mexican muskets was when Houston's lines were on the descending slope, before climbing that final rise. The slope was important as you pointed out. If you get a chance, read the Forbes/Labadie transcript. A whole bunch of San Jacinto vets are brought in for testimony and there are some nice little details about the battle that come out during the interviews...
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Post by garyzaboly on Aug 31, 2010 5:31:06 GMT -5
The Texians were able to leave their own camp in column, they deploy into two lines behind the intervening rise in the ground, unseen by the Mexican camp: another factor contributing to the effectiveness of their surprise attack.
Thanks for the suggestion, Kevin re: Forbes/Labadie. Will investigate same.
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