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Post by Allen Wiener on Jun 11, 2009 12:25:13 GMT -5
Herb, that all adds up; I hadn't thought of the possibility of Mexican recon via glasses. All things considered, this is a pretty strong case for the attack being made at the SW corner and being intended as such, rather than a shift from some other objective (the pallisade or tambor).
Another question pops to mind. I know that Travis was a woefully inexperienced commander (with few exceptions, the Alamo garrison was pretty much amateur hour anyway), but wouldn't it have made sense to "game" this thing out? That is, for Travis to ask himself, "If I were Santa Anna, and I were trying to take this place as painlessly as possible, how would I likely do it?" That kind of thinking might have led to consideration of the Charli House and the jacales and the possibility/liklihood that the Mexicans might use that as cover for an attack on the SW corner. Even so, what could Travis have done about it? He'd burned the jacales (or at least some of them I guess), but knocking down the Charli House didn't happen. Finally, I again think about the issue of surprise being a key factor in the Mexican gaining entrance here pretty quickly.
AW
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Post by stuart on Jun 11, 2009 14:26:30 GMT -5
Its wandering off topic here, but I really don't think Travis was thinking about an assault. He and his men were stuck in the Alamo with nowhere else to go. The Mexicans could have tried to take it on the run at the outset, but didn't; there were no obvious signs of an assault, no breach no nothing. I reckon if he wasn't already resigned to eventual surrender he was anticipating the John Wayne scenario with a final summons to surrender and then a set piece assault and glorious last stand in broad daylight.
Instead Santa Anna played hardball. There's far too much nonsense been talked, beginning with some of his own officers, about how pointless and vainglorious the assault was, launched with a callous indifference to casualties.
I don't think Santa Anna saw it that way at all. We've a lot of evidence here and on other threads that the assault was very well planned. If you look at that level field comparator of Chippawa which I've discussed over on the casulaties thread, there was no reason to anticipate that the casualties would be as high as they turned out to be - if reported correctly.
In the event, as we know, things went wrong, but that's a long way from proclaiming he shouldn't have done it in the first place. Certainly the plan was good and the preparations were thorough. Santa Anna wasn't a bad general, he was just unlucky.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Jun 12, 2009 12:56:47 GMT -5
Stuart,
Are you saying, then, that Travis did not expect an assault at all? Or, that he just didn't see one coming when it did? All of his letters pleading for help carry a sense of urgency, as if he can only hold out so long without reinforcements and will doubtless be wiped out by the vastly larger Mexican army if he doesn't get them. If that was just Travis posturing, then what was he expecting? To simply be starved out unti there was no option but to surrender?
AW
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Post by Jim Boylston on Jun 12, 2009 14:11:28 GMT -5
I think Travis thought he was in good shape until an Alamo wall was breached beyond repair. He probably knew this would happen eventually, thus his sense of urgency in his correspondence. This attitude might also explain what can be interpreted as a lack of urgency in his on site preparations. He could stall an attack by repairing the walls nightly. He may have thought that as long as he kept up the repairs the only other thing he need do was wait for reinforcements. For some time I've been a proponent of the idea that Travis simply read the signs Santa Anna was sending, and all signs pointed to a continued siege. When Santa Anna threw a change up and went with an escalade attack, Travis was caught off guard. Jim
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Post by stuart on Jun 12, 2009 14:47:48 GMT -5
That's pretty well how I see it.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Jun 12, 2009 18:20:45 GMT -5
That raises one more question (don't they all??) -- what was the thinking of Travis & Bowie in the weeks leading up to Santa Anna's arrival? What purpose did they see in remaining in Bexar and what did they anticipate would play out once the Mexicans got there (whether they got reinforcements before that time or not)?
I think you're both right in your thinking about what Travis was thinking. I suppose he hoped that significant reinforcements would enable him to hold the fort against an attack. But what then? Did he hope for a reinforcement large enough to break the Mexican siege? After all, if small reinforcements (like the Gonzales 32) simply added a few men to the garrison, there was still the problem of eventually running out of food and having to consider surrender.
To be honest, these are somewhat rhetorical questions, since I'm not sure Travis or Bowie had thought that far ahead or in that much detail.
AW
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Post by Kevin Young on Jun 12, 2009 21:47:09 GMT -5
We always joked that one day they would find a cannon with Travis' diary insidewith an entry for March 5 "if help does not come by dawn tomorrow, we are leaving!" I tend to agree, for what it is worth, that Travis and the lads were taken by surprise that morning...to be sure, there was probably some "this is it" thinking, but many of the garrison were just not expecting it. To me, the Alamo siege has always been a matter of who is going to get enough manpower in San Antonio to tip the balance: by March 3rd Santa Anna had gotten enough to do the job. Travis' mindset, again in my take of the events, is that the whole of Texas would see his vision of meeting the enemy at the Alamo: and in that he was greatly disapointed.
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Post by stuart on Jun 13, 2009 9:42:17 GMT -5
We're wandering well off the OP here, but that's the way conversations go...
My own take on all of this is a lot less heroic than the mythology. The Texians and Mexican Federalistas jointly took Bexar in December 1835. Grant, Gonzales, Benavides and the other Federalistas, together with as many filibusters as they could muster, then went south to the Rio Grande leaving Neill and the Secesh behind in Bexar. Neill, Bowie and then Travis held on because abandoning Bexar would have meant abandoning the whole department, which was unacceptably politically - although advocated by Houston - and also because Bexar was indeed a useful trip-wire position. What then followed was an effort to reinforce Bexar which was bedevilled by the split in the Council which in turn meant that the available resources were divided between Bexar and Goliad. The big units went to Fannin, obviously, but nevertheless there was always a steady trickle of volunteers making their way to Bexar all the way up to the arrival of the Mexicans, so until that point there was no reason for Neill or Travis to abandon the place.
However because they lacked the horses to mount proper patrols and wilfully ignored the specific warning sent by Benavides, they were caught napping when Santa Anna turned up like the Devil at prayers and took refuge in the Alamo simply because it was the only lifeboat available. They couldn't retreat because they didn't have the horses to out-run the Mexicans and were too weak to fight their way out. Forting up in the Alamo and holding on until help came wasn't a considered objective, but the only one open to them, other than surrendering on the spot.
Now as to what happens next; its possible that Travis hoped a relieving force would turn up one fine morning, but to some extent that was his only hope, however unrealistic. Ultimately it was going to end when Santa Anna attacked and there Travis probably he reckoned he had two options; either he would be offered "honourable terms" in recognition of a gallant defence, which meant marching out and home, and the longer he held on the better he could argue that he and his men had earned that concession; or there would be a full dress assault in daylight culminating in that glorious last stand. Either way the last summons and the assault which would follow rejection, was going to happen when the walls were breached and a formal assault was a practicable proposition. In the event, Santa Anna surprised them all by mounting an escalade in the dark with no prior warning.
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Post by marklemon on Jun 13, 2009 22:41:47 GMT -5
Stuart, Good analysis, to which I would only add that another factor keeping Travis and Bowie et al, in Bexar, was their sick and wounded from the December Bexar battle. Having no practical means to transport them, meant they had to either stay with their wounded, or leave them to the mercy of the Mexicans. Mark
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Post by Kevin Young on Jun 15, 2009 13:25:57 GMT -5
Excellent issue with some good information and interesting re-evaulations present. I also like Borrell's de la Pena correction. Good job Bill and all...
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