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Post by edward on Jan 17, 2014 23:39:33 GMT -5
Well I have been hesitant to post this because I cannot find my source. I think I took it from a deed but did not mark my CAD file so I do not know which of the 1000 or so deeds I have it is in. The attached screen shot shows the location I have for the Powder House for what its is worth.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jan 19, 2014 0:50:53 GMT -5
My placement is based on the Gentilz-Giraud city plat which shows the Powder House. Note: The modern street labeling on the insert in this plat is not correct. The street marked Toledo is actually Piedmont. Toledo Street is one street to the east, under the "y" in Wyoming. Palmetto Street (as on your map above) is located at the extreme right edge of the insert map below and not named. And the "Confederate Map." I do not believe that the south-western of the two structures shown on this map is in the Seth Eastman drawing. I believe the "Powder House" is shown on this map to represent both structures that were close to each other as in the Eastman. My virtual model overlay on the satellite imagery representing this conclusion.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jan 19, 2014 1:37:24 GMT -5
The exact placement of the Watch Tower and Powder Magazine within Gentilz' square is conjectural, however the directional orientation of the structures is correct. For my model, I have followed the extant descriptions indicating that there were two earthen parapets facing east and south with a bastion on the corner. The only thing I still lack is an unfinished, rock-filled well between the buildings and the bastion. Looking from the west in this model shot, you can see the "Road to the Powder House" (modern E. Commerce St.) going directly to the complex. The smaller road on the left is possibly Camino Viejo de las Carretas joining the road to Paso Hondo (on Salado Creek). It still crests the hill today as Paso Hondo Street. Rounding the protruding portion of Powder House Hill on the right is the "Coast Road" (as per the "Confederate Map") which is also the Lower Gonzales Road, crossing Salado Creek at Paso Toruto, downstream about 1.4 crow-fly miles from Paso Hondo. Rick Range's conclusion is that there was no road then known as the Gonzales Road continuing beyond the Garita along the path of E. Commerce Street. My belief is that Paso Hondo Street was the only through road at this point.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jan 19, 2014 1:57:44 GMT -5
Finally, the Upper Gonzales Road traveled northeast from Plaza de Valero and crossed the ridge line between Powder House Hill and what later became known as Government Hill (on the left) where Fort Sam Houston was built. Beyond the valley, much of this route still exists as the Seguin Road. My belief is that this was Bonham's route of arrival on March 3. This road crossed Salado Creek in the general vicinity of the modern water park Splashtown on the right side of I-35.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jan 19, 2014 2:01:19 GMT -5
Well I have been hesitant to post this because I cannot find my source. I think I took it from a deed but did not mark my CAD file so I do not know which of the 1000 or so deeds I have it is in. The attached screen shot shows the location I have for the Powder House for what its is worth.
View Attachment Edward, I'm not quite clear on your meaning here. Is the plat your representation of the location as per your conclusion from written sources, or is this an early city plat or some such item that actually shows the location? If the latter, then it trumps everything I have just presented, and I must return to the "drawing board." lol.
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Post by edward on Jan 19, 2014 16:42:04 GMT -5
I looked this morning for a couple of hours trying to locate my ‘deed source’ but could not find. I do not remember what it showed but it did label the powder house not sure if it had any dimensions or bearings. Will try again later. I did look at the Gentilz-Giraud city plat and compared it to the block numbers from the 1890 Rullman’s Map of San Antonio and it shows block 101 is bounded on the East by Palmetto St. but there is also a joggle which seems to suggest that Palmetto street was moved farther East and in line.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jan 19, 2014 18:02:32 GMT -5
How about this? A 1909 city map with a street named Powder House. The Garita markers were added to the map and not originally there (either Covner or Moses, probably), but are approximately where I have placed the structures. Powder House Street became Piedmont, between Monumental and Toledo. Palmetto is the street east of Toledo. I think the relative scale on the Gentilz-Giraud map is unreliable and part of the problem, strange as it may seem, coming from a surveyor. But then the map's purpose was not to show scale relationships as much as to house block number information.
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Post by edward on Jan 20, 2014 13:34:55 GMT -5
How about this? A 1909 city map with a street named Powder House. The Garita markers were added to the map and not originally there (either Covner or Moses, probably), but are approximately where I have placed the structures. Powder House Street became Piedmont, between Monumental and Toledo. Palmetto is the street east of Toledo. I think the relative scale on the Gentilz-Giraud map is unreliable and part of the problem, strange as it may seem, coming from a surveyor. But then the map's purpose was not to show scale relationships as much as to house block number information. There is a lot of street name changes. Also, Toledo was called Lucas in one survey. Powder House nor Toledo streets however crossed the Alameda. Attached is he data I was looking for. Visually it does not look like much but you can see the label Powder House next to the street that is unlabeled but crosses the Alameda (lower right corner survey), that would make it Palmetto St. and again you can see the Block numbers for additional reference. Block 109 bounded by Pine and Monumental Streets in the other maps. Reference: San Antonio Survey book 2, page 18 (I clipped the area in question because the entire file is above the 1 mb limit)
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jan 20, 2014 15:36:37 GMT -5
Awesome! Let me study and compare before I speak. lol.
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Post by jrboddie on Jul 31, 2014 18:19:29 GMT -5
Here is a scene from my 3D model based on the Seth Eastman sketch. Watch Tower and Powder House at dawn. Some details and higher resolution image on my blog.
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Post by edward on Jul 31, 2014 23:30:18 GMT -5
Here is a scene from my 3D model based on the Seth Eastman sketch. Watch Tower and Powder House at dawn. Some details and higher resolution image on my blog. Nice rendering. You have this facing east and the sides aligned with the Commerce street? Can you get the shadows to agree?
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Post by jrboddie on Aug 1, 2014 9:20:42 GMT -5
Thanks Edward. As you know, Commerce Street (the Alameda) is on a true bearing that is south of east by about 15 degrees and the structures are aligned with it. This render has the sun rising due east (late March or September). That said, I was trying to maximize the light/dark contrast when I set the sun environment for dramatic effect and was not aiming to simulate a specific day.
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Post by edward on Aug 1, 2014 10:04:23 GMT -5
Thanks Edward. As you know, Commerce Street (the Alameda) is on a true bearing that is south of east by about 15 degrees and the structures are aligned with it. This render has the sun rising due east (late March or September). That said, I was trying to maximize the light/dark contrast when I set the sun environment for dramatic effect and was not aiming to simulate a specific day. The effect is great. I did some shadow studies a while back and could not get the shadows to agree with the orientation for the November shadows. So it has left me to question the orientation of the structures, but I could have done something wrong. I know you have done actual sun placements for shadows so I was wondering if you have tried the 22 November sun placement. I would be curious on what you come up with.
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Post by jrboddie on Aug 1, 2014 11:43:17 GMT -5
This is the best I could do with my model. Eastman doesn't give us a lot to work with. There are no visible shadows on the canales and other shadows are pretty diffuse indicating a cloudy day. I added a dummy character to stand in for the figure in front of the watch tower and used its shadow to set the time (sun angles). Date: November 22, 1848 Time: 9 am Sun Azimuth: 130 degrees Sun Elevation: 21 degrees The character's shadow is about right. There is some illumination into the watch tower door but not as much as suggested by the Eastman sketch.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Aug 1, 2014 12:00:58 GMT -5
Remember, above all else, Eastman was an artist -- working in black and white. It would not have been out of the ordinary for him to fudge a bit to render better three-dimensionality.
Also, see my model overlay on the satellite image at the top of this page for what I settled on as the relationship between the Garita and Commerce St., albeit for my virtual map. I am convinced that the eastern section of Commerce (passing on the north side of the Garita) did not exist in 1836, at least not as a formal "Road to Gonzales." The Alameda was also labeled as "Road to the Powder House" and may have been laid down solely for that purpose.
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