doc
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Post by doc on Apr 14, 2008 18:49:37 GMT -5
That's true, Jim.
It's possible for a fellow to be a "sorry sumbitch" AND a "brave sumbitch."
Say what you will about Quick, that boy had more nerve than a bad tooth!
SLH
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Post by sloanrodgers on Apr 14, 2008 21:26:44 GMT -5
Awww! Thanks. That means a lot coming from a respected historian and author, but it was really nothing. It was trk's fault for steering me over to the muster rolls to look for a missing veteran. Yup! I run into it all the time whilst rummaging through the republic claims and other period documents at the State Archives. Even while I was looking at Quick's claim (85-183) with Capt. John S. Hendershot's company earlier, I failed to decipher or just notice the scribbled "enter service" and below it a date of Feby. 7/36. I guess Ol' Quick was war hero after all. John C.C. Quick's republic claim 85-183 - It works if you type it out. tslarc.tsl.state.tx.us/repclaims/85/08500183 I'm sure it happened with all the loose regulations and land swindles going on in the young republic. Of course Quick could have just served in Capt. Hendershot's company until Nov. 24th, 1836, then joined James D. Elliot's Dragoons until they disbanded in March of 1837.
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doc
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Post by doc on Apr 14, 2008 21:56:07 GMT -5
Gee, RangerRod, "respected historian and author?" You obviously haven't consulted my ex-wife.
Well, let's give ol' C. C. Quick the benefit of the doubt. Heck, we owe him that much. At the end of his life he did not have much to show for his service to Texas.
SLH
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Post by sloanrodgers on Apr 14, 2008 22:10:01 GMT -5
I can't get no respect, no respect atall as a historian. Take my my wife, please. Wait! I don't got one. ;D Agreed. Quick's service to Texas during the revolution is pretty much written in stone, but it's too bad that his record crumbled so quickly after the war.
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doc
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Post by doc on Apr 15, 2008 6:28:39 GMT -5
You're right on the money, RangerRod.
That their "record crumbled so quickly after the war" was what attracted me to the subject in the first place. The story of Quick and Jones is the story of all discharged Texian soldiers in microcosm. When Texas was in need, they answered the call, they served, they suffered, and many died. And when they had served their purpose, President Houston flushed them like used toilet paper. Young, jobless, and armed to the teeth, many of these former soldiers wandered into the capital where many--but not all--became "Rowdy Loafers."
Rowdy Loafers soon lost their pride, formed into gangs, and reduced themselves to the status of a criminal underclass. They were bitter and resentful; under the same circumstances, so would we be.
Most of these young men came to sad ends--and that's not a fact upon which Texans wish to dwell.
The problem of troubled veterans is with us still. Do we treat ours better that the Texas Republic treated theirs? Yes, certainly--but still not well enough to brag about.
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Post by sloanrodgers on Apr 15, 2008 17:59:37 GMT -5
You're right on the money, RangerRod. That their "record crumbled so quickly after the war" was what attracted me to the subject in the first place. The story of Quick and Jones is the story of all discharged Texian soldiers in microcosm. When Texas was in need, they answered the call, they served, they suffered, and many died. And when they had served their purpose, President Houston flushed them like used toilet paper. Thanks again. I try to be on the money even when I'm out of it. I don't mean to speak up for that rascal Houston, but what could he have done moneywise for the destitute revolutionary veterans? Texas star and redback money wasn't worth much more than TP and was less absorbant. The republic was obviously land rich and cash poor. At least the General Land Office handed donation and bounty grants to those that served honorably. They wern't the quicker-picker- uppers for the crap rowdy types like Quick and Jones got involved in, but it was something that could be sold or traded if they were smart. Pres. Lamar's solution for economic recovery seemed to be picking fights with Indians and Mexico. It was a sad situation and who could blame the veterans that fell and failed to rise above their circumstance. I do applaud the vets that learn to stand on their own two feet, then teach their comrades to do the same. The parades and speeches faded quickly after I came back from my little Central American warette as they do with larger conflicts. All we can do is insure that our government does the best it can for our veterans while the human carnage is still fresh in everyone's mind. We are a helluva lot richer than the Republic of Tejas.
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doc
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Post by doc on Apr 16, 2008 5:07:22 GMT -5
It is not my intention to excoriate President Houston, either here or in the book. As RangerRod observes, Houston found himself in an impossibe situation: his predecessors had written checks the Republic could not cash and the army had created more problems than it solved.
This is not the thread to open up the Houston policy can of worms. Suffice it to say that Houston's decision to furlough the army was politically expedient. Yet, it had an unintended consequence: the creation of the Rowdy Loafers. Houston solved one problem only to create another. Still, who could have anticipated that?
President Houston is not the villain of the piece (although I wish he had not been so high-handed in his treatment of the soldiers). Given the political and ecconomic realities of the Texas Republic, there was no way the story was going to have a happy ending for the volunteers.
That's the part of the tale that breaks my heart. The key word in the title is not "Macabre," but "Melancholy."
SLH
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Post by Jim Boylston on Apr 16, 2008 5:21:31 GMT -5
That's most certainly true. For all the grave robbing and grotesquery in the story, it's a tragic tale of men who had seemingly outlived their usefulness to a republic that summarily set them adrift. I'd welcome a thread discussing Sam Houston, by the way. That's always a fiery topic. Jim
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Post by sloanrodgers on Apr 16, 2008 7:02:19 GMT -5
Houston solved one problem only to create another. Still, who could have anticipated that? Yes. Houston did a lot of that. Sometimes, all one has for a gaping wound is a mere bandaid. I wish Houston had done better, but he could have done worse. I like your term "rowdy loafers" a great deal. Did you coin it or dig it up in some musty ol' Texas document? During the early days of Austin ( 1839-? ), the rowdy Bullock Hotel had a make-shift bench out front called "Loafers Log". It was here that some citizens of the capital city gathered to drink, tell jokes and swap tall tales.
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doc
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Post by doc on Apr 16, 2008 7:58:53 GMT -5
No, RangerRod, I can't claim any credit for the term "Rowdy Loafers." It's a term that Texians employed throughout the late-1830s and early-1840s.
On the other hand, "sure as clap in a cathouse" is all mine. My mother would be so proud.
SLH
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Post by mustanggray on Apr 16, 2008 13:33:34 GMT -5
"Sometimes, all one has for a gaping wound is a mere bandaid."
RR,
Great pun on Houston there! Since Doc already said it I won't get too far into the Houston vs. Lamar debate here. I think a new thread in regards would be a great thing... I tire of hearing Lamar bashed for his Indian policies and his military actions while Houston is held up as some great thing!!!
SMc
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Post by sloanrodgers on Apr 16, 2008 19:49:12 GMT -5
Good words doc, good words. Whether they are yours or another wordsmith like Travis. Great find and thanks for sharing its history. Mustang, the only pun intended was the one alluding to bounty land grants and Bounty Paper Towel's tag-line: The quicker-picker-upper, so I'm a little confued by the referenced Houston pun.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Apr 16, 2008 20:24:02 GMT -5
"gaping wound"? Rumor was that it may have cost him his marriage and, hence, his political career in Tennessee. But, who knows? Sounds a bit simplistic.
AW
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Post by sloanrodgers on Apr 16, 2008 21:04:34 GMT -5
"gaping wound"? Rumor was that it may have cost him his marriage and, hence, his political career in Tennessee. But, who knows? Sounds a bit simplistic. AW OIC. Of course I was referring to doc's loafing Texas army, not Houston's old arrow wound from Horseshoe Bend. By the time Houston married Miss Eliza Allen, the wound had become less gaping and more abscessed as I understand this wound progression.
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Post by bobdurham on Apr 17, 2008 0:54:55 GMT -5
This is probably too long to be posting here (if so, I'll understand if the administrators have to pull it) and has nothing to do with the book Texian Macabre but I ran across this newspaper article (from the 5 June 1830 edition of the Piqua Gazette and Miami Farmers' General Intelligencer -- Piqua is a small town in western Ohio) about Houston and his wife, Eliza:
THE WIFE OF GOV. HOUSTON. The Nashville Banner of the 7th inst. contains the annexed articles, introduced with these remarks: “We regret the necessity of giving publicity to the following documents. We fear that, on the whole, no benefit will accrue to any party from the measure. But the number and high respectability of those who have promoted, aided, and sanctioned it, the prominent standing of the individual principally referred to, and the anxious expectations of the public, who are already aware that some movements have been lately made on the subject, leave us no alternative but to comply with the request of those who have transmitted us the article for publication. Where the lady spoken of is personally known, we believe her reputation remains fair, and unsullied even by suspicion. At a meeting of sundry respectable citizens of Sumner county, state of Tennessee, assembled at the court house in the Town of Gallatin, on the 26th day of April, 1830, George Crockett of said town was called to the Chair, Thomas Anderson was appointed Secretary. The design of said meeting having been explained on appropriate remarks from Col. Joseph C. Guild, on motion of Mr. William Howard Douglas, it was Resolved, That the following gentlemen be appointed a committee to draw up a report expressive of the opinions entertained of the private virtues of Mrs. Eliza H. Houston, among those acquainted with her in consequence of the late unfortunate occurrence between her and her husband, Gen. Samuel Houston, late Governor of the State of Tennessee to wit: General William Hall, William L. Alexander, Esq., Gen Eastin Morris, Col Joseph C. Guild, Elijah Boddle, Esq. Col. Daniel Montgomery, Thomas Anderson, Esq. Capt. Alfred H. Douglas, Isaac Baker, Esq. Mr. Robert, Mr. Boyers, Major Charles Watking and Josiah W. Baldridge Esq. And that said committee meet at the Court House in Gallatin on Wednesday next and report. The meeting was then adjourned until Wednesday next at 10 o’clock. GEORGE CROCKETT, Chairman, THOS. ANDERSON, Secretary. GALLATIN, Wednesday, April 23. The citizens met according to adjournment, all the members of the committee were present (except Col. Montgomery,) and presented the following report: The committee deem it unnecessary at this time to animadvert on the character and conduct of Governor Houston, except so far the same as they may be inseparably connected with the investigation and development of the character of his unfortunate wife. It appears that very shortly after the marriage, Governor Houston became jealous of his wife, and mentioned the subject to one or two persons, apparently in confidence; yet the committee are not informed that he made any specific charges, only that he believed that she was incontinent and devoid of the affections which a wife ought to have towards her husband. The committee cannot doubt but that he rendered his wife unhappy by his unfounded jealousies and his repeated suspicions of her coldness and want of attachment, and that she was constrained by a sense of duty to herself and her family, to separate from her infatuated husband and return to her parents, which she did early in the month of April last; since which time she has remained in a state of dejection and despondency. The committee will close this report by observing that they are informed that Gov. Houston has lately made a tour through the middle states, and has returned to Nashville on his way to Arkansas, where they understand he has located himself in the Cherokee nation; and it has been suggested that public sympathy has been much excited in his favor, and that a belief has been obtained in many places abroad that he was married to an unworthy woman, and she has been the cause of all his misfortunes and his downfall as a man and a politician, whereas, nothing is farther from the fact; and without charging him with malignity of heart or baseness of purpose, the committee have no hesitation in saying that he is a deluded man; and his suspicions were groundless, that his unfortunate wife is now and ever has been in the possession of a character unimpeachable; and that there is an innocent and injured woman there is not the semblance of doubt. The committee appointed to express the sentiments of this meeting in relation to the character of Mrs. Eliza H. Houston, and the causes which led to a separation from her husband, beg leave to present that on the 22d day of January, 1829, Gen. Samuel Houston, the Governor of Tennessee, was married to Mis Eliza H. Allen, a highly respectable citizen of Sumner county. Miss Allen was born in the town of Gallatin, and has been raised in the county of Sumner, and is personal[ly] known to the whole of the committee, a majority of whom have known her from her infancy. Up to the time of her marriage with Gov. Houston, no lady sustained (and the committee think justly sustained) a fairer and more unsullied reputation for all those virtues which embellish and adorn the female character. The committee have had placed in their hands a letter from Gov. Houston to Mr. Allen, written shortly after the separation, a copy which they subjoin without comment. MR. ALLEN: The most unpleasant and unhappy circumstance has just taken place in the family, and one that was entirely unnecessary at this time. Whatever had been my feelings or opinions in relation to Eliza at one time, I have been satisfied and it is now unfit that any thing should be adverted to. Eliza will do me the justice to say, that she believes I was really unhappy. That I was satisfied and believed her virtuous, I had assured her on last night and this morning. This should have prevented the facts ever coming to your knowledge and that of Mrs. Allen. I would not for millions that it had ever been known to you. But one human being knew anything of it from me, and that was from Eliza’s consent and wish. I would have perished first, and if mortal man had dared to charge my wife, or say ought against her virtue, I would have slain him. That I have and do love Eliza, none can doubt – that I have ever treated her with affection, she will admit – that she is the only earthly object dear to me, God will ever witness. The only way this matter can now be overcome will be for us all to meet as tho’ it had never occurred, and this shall keep the world as it should be, ignorant that such thoughts ever were. Eliza stands acquitted by me – I have received her as a virtuous and chaste wife, and as such I pray God I may ever regard her, and trust I ever shall. She was cold to me; and I thought did not love me; she owns that such was one cause of my unhappiness. You can judge how unhappy I was to think that I was united to a woman who did not love me. – That time is now past, and my future happiness can only exist in the assurance that Eliza and myself can be happy, and that Mrs. Allen and you will forget the past, forgive all, and find your lost peace, and you may rest assured that nothing on my part shall be wanting to restore it. Let me know what is to be done. SAM. HOUSTON. 9th April, 1829. The report was unanimously accepted, and it was Resolved, That the editors of the Gallatin Journal, Nashville Republic, Nashville Banner, and all other editors who feel any interest for the character of an injured female, be requested to give the forgoing report and proceedings an insertion in their respective papers. And the meeting adjourned. GEO. CROCKETT, Chairman THOS. ANDERSON, Secretary.
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