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Goliad
Sept 22, 2008 11:22:28 GMT -5
Post by alamonorth on Sept 22, 2008 11:22:28 GMT -5
Has anyone read the new book called Slaughter at Goliad: The Mexican Massacre of 400 Texas Volunteers. by Jay Stout ?
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Goliad
Sept 22, 2008 12:06:07 GMT -5
Post by stuart on Sept 22, 2008 12:06:07 GMT -5
Nope, never heard of it. Sounds a bit emotive.
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Goliad
Sept 22, 2008 12:29:29 GMT -5
Post by Herb on Sept 22, 2008 12:29:29 GMT -5
Has anyone read the new book called Slaughter at Goliad: The Mexican Massacre of 400 Texas Volunteers. by Jay Stout ? I bought it a couple of weeks ago, but haven't started it yet. I hadn't heard of the author, nor was the book reviewed by any of the familiar Texas Revolution authors. It is published by the Naval Institute Press, which generally puts out some quality books.
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Goliad
Sept 22, 2008 12:38:54 GMT -5
Post by Wade Dillon on Sept 22, 2008 12:38:54 GMT -5
I've been in contact with Mr. Stout. I'll try and point him over here to talk with us.
~Wade
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Goliad
Sept 22, 2008 21:30:11 GMT -5
Post by Paul Sylvain on Sept 22, 2008 21:30:11 GMT -5
That would be great, Wade. I haven't heard or seen the book, either, but it sounds intriguing.
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Goliad
Sept 23, 2008 8:29:06 GMT -5
Post by elcolorado on Sept 23, 2008 8:29:06 GMT -5
I just finished "Goliad: The Other Alamo" by William R. Bradle. It was a very informative book, although a few of his facts on the Alamo were wrong.
I plan on getting Stout's book in the very near future.
Glenn
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Goliad
Sept 23, 2008 10:29:16 GMT -5
Post by Herb on Sept 23, 2008 10:29:16 GMT -5
Nope, never heard of it. Sounds a bit emotive. I looked through the book a little more yesterday (will probably start reading it tonight) and the author candidly admits that part of the reason behind the title was to sell more books, but he also explains that to him that is the most accurate description of what happened. To him the two extremes are describing the event as an execution or as murder, and very clearly to him it was neither. An execution implies a legal action after judicial proceedings and very clearly not even drumhead court martials were conducted, while murder is wholly outside the law, and also very clearly no matter how questionable, there was a legal justification to the Mexican action. Again just looking through the books I was struck by a map that shows the location of the execution sites. If you've been to Goliad according to his map the three sites were all about a half of a mile from presidio: the New Orleans and Mobile Greys NE and along the river, the Georgia Battalion and Kentucky Mustangs NW and along the river, and the Red Rovers and Westover's Regulars SW. As I remember the terrain, it would seem that the execution sites would all be visible from the Presidio - causing me to wonder if they were centrally controlled? Interestingly, where Rusk and the Texian Army buried the remains is about 1/2 mile to the SE of the Presidio - away from all the execution sites. It seems an odd choice. I guess I really need to read the book!
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Goliad
Nov 13, 2008 9:28:55 GMT -5
Post by Allen Wiener on Nov 13, 2008 9:28:55 GMT -5
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Goliad
Nov 13, 2008 10:00:42 GMT -5
Post by TRK on Nov 13, 2008 10:00:42 GMT -5
I haven't seen a copy of this book yet: waiting until I see what the source list looks like before buying it.
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Goliad
Nov 13, 2008 11:39:31 GMT -5
Post by Herb on Nov 13, 2008 11:39:31 GMT -5
It's a good introductory book about Goliad, and I'd recommend it as such. The author relied primarily on sources available on line as well as the more common sources eg. Erehenberg, Davenport, Brooks' letters, etc.
I want to emphasize it's not a bad book, but it also doesn't break any new ground or even touch on more recent works such as The Secret War For Texas.
If you're not familiar with Goliad and South Texas, it's a good place to start.
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Goliad
Jan 28, 2009 18:43:25 GMT -5
Post by alamonorth on Jan 28, 2009 18:43:25 GMT -5
The January issue of the SWHQ, has reviews of Goliad: the Other Alamo and Slaughter at Goliad. James Crisp in his review writes "neither of these seriously flawed works"will be the definitive Goliad study.
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Goliad
Mar 15, 2009 15:04:10 GMT -5
Post by Kevin Young on Mar 15, 2009 15:04:10 GMT -5
Actually, the site where the Greys got it may have been out of site of the Presidio. The location is down on what was(and I think still is) the Kelly property, which is actually below the Presidio to the NE. It really depend on the size of trees and such.
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Goliad
Mar 16, 2009 10:51:24 GMT -5
Post by mustanggray on Mar 16, 2009 10:51:24 GMT -5
Hey, it's good to see you here Kevin! You need to come down here and visit us sometime!!!
The site you speak of is still Kelly property unless his kids have sold it recently... I'll check on it and see though I guess that doesn't make to much difference to the discussion. Seems I remember reading about the men executed inside the compound being dumped in a ditch... does that sound familiar to you? I want to say I came across it while reading about Fannin's execution.
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Goliad
Mar 16, 2009 11:04:48 GMT -5
Post by Kevin Young on Mar 16, 2009 11:04:48 GMT -5
;D Always a great pleasure to talk to you Scott. If I can ever shake free of all the civic responsibilities up here I will be coming down for a visit-especially if you do another quality living history event.
I will have to look up the references (somewhere in a bunch of Goliad research files), but I believe yes, the wounded were dragged out and shot and then thrown in the defensive ditches.
Mr. Kelly was a great guy, and was always so nice to let us look around and use his place. His son Mike was great as well. They all really cared about the history that took place on their property. There is always an odd feeling down on their place at the river crossing.
I remember that one of the local folks living off the northeast side of the Presidio had been sneeking in at night and running a water hose back to their house. We kept trying to figure out why the waterbill was so high. Mike Kelly was coming back from the Red Onion field with a disker, and saw the hose (they apparently were running late on removing it) and he dropped the disks and turned it into about five little chucks of hose.
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doc
Full Member
Posts: 88
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Goliad
Apr 26, 2009 11:27:46 GMT -5
Post by doc on Apr 26, 2009 11:27:46 GMT -5
Friends:
Huge news!
I need to give everyone a heads-up on an important new book. It's called SILENT WITNESS TO TEXAS HISTORY: ARCHEOLOGY AND ARTIFACTS OF GOLIAD'S PRESIDIO LA BAHIA by Anne A. Fox, Samuel P. Nesmith and Daniel E. Fox. It is published in a limited edition by Presidio La Bahia, Catholic Diocese of Victoria, Victoria, Texas (March 2009).
The book's contents are as follows:
Foreword by Phil Collins Preface by Jim Bruseth About the Authors Acknowledgements
Chapter 1: Introduction, Daniel E. Fox. Chapter 2: Studying the Archeological Record, Daniel E. Fox and Anne A. Fox. Chapter 3: Presidio La Bahia in Written History, Daniel E. Fox and Anne A. Fox. Chapter 4: Military History of the Presidio La Bahia, Samuel P. Nesmith. Chapter 5: Structural History, Anne A. Fox and Daniel E. Fox. Chapter 6: Archeological Investigations, Anne A. Fox. Chapter 7: Artifacts of Habitation and Daily Life, Daniel E. Fox and Anne A. Fox. Chapter 8: Military Artifacts, Samuel P. Nesmith. Chapter 9: Conclusions and Interpretations: An Archeologist'sPresidio La Bahia, Daniel E. Fox. Chapter 10: Topics for Further Study, Daniel E. Fox.
Appendix A: The Quiet But Lasting Witness: Our Lady of Loreto Chapel, Daniel A. Fox. Appendix B: Mexican Order of Battle, 1835-1836 Mexican Military Units in Texas, Samuel P. Nesmith. Appendix C: Ordnance Size Charts for Munitions of the Texas Revolution, Samuel P. Nesmith. Appendix D: Expedient Stone Tool Technology: Prehistoric Chert Artifacts for Reuse, Daniel E. Fox.
References Cited.
If you have any interest in the Presidio La Bahia or the Goliad campaign, this is the book for which you've been waiting. Anyone who is even remotely familiar with Texas archeology will know that Fox, Nesmith, and Fox are the "Top Guns" in their discipline.
The book boasts photographs, maps, charts, and illustrations (many in color).
While I am no archeologist, I would have gladly paid the book's price for Sam's order of battle for the Mexican army. Would that I had a copy while I was writing TEXIAN ILIAD. Trust me, this is the OOB that we'll all be using for the forseeable future.
Now for the bad news. At $55.00 the book is not inexpensive. Even so, it presents good value for the money. The book is only availabe in soft cover; I plan to have my copy rebound between hard boards. Those of you who have the soft cover edition of ALAMO IMAGES will know how frustrating it is to have a trusted reference work come apart after repeated use.
This title is NOT available in book shops or on Amazon. It is only available through the Presidio La Bahia. There are no plans to distrubute it at any other venue. Call and order at 361-645-3752.
Only four hundred copies were printed. When these are gone it is uncertain if the volume will ever be reprinted. I predict that this book will, in the fullness of time, become a collector's item. Sooo . . . spring for the fifty-five bucks now or spend eight hundred on eBay down the line. How many wish they had bought THE PAPERS OF THE TEXAS REVOLUTION when it was first published?
This is the real deal, guys. You will not be dissapointed--unless you wait and let it get away.
Doc
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