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Post by sloanrodgers on Apr 30, 2010 18:26:48 GMT -5
RR: I would agree with you about the yarn spinners and expression of free speech as far as it goes. But these types of activities often start with such harmlessness and escalate into what we all despise. Somebody says - I don't believe you. The yarn spinner then comes back with - I'll show you. Wolfpack's scenario is thankfully rare and ultimately exposed in most instances. I investigated a first sergeant once who spent that period of his enlistment that mirrored the Vietnam War at Fort A. P Hill, VA. He wore a 82d Airborne Combat Patch and Combat Infantry Badge, and had not seen one day of combat anywhere, yet my investigation revealed that he had worn these items on his uniform for years as determined by sworn witness statements. He was allowed to retire, and he was extremely lucky. When faced with the body of evidence his only statement was that by wearing the patches and badges he thought he would impress his troops. His only saving grace in my mind was that he claimed no Purple Heart or decorations for valor. I suppose in his case he could bring himself to only go so far. Well, I still believe there is a line a false story-teller would have to cross before you notify the word police. Someone pulling out their Medal of Honor or the clippers used on Old Saddam would probably be tip-offs. I have known combat veterans all my life and they're usually very closed-lipped about their violent existence in their particular war. I've also met a few braggart phonies and they give themselves away fairly easy and then have nowhere to go with there lies. Another problem that compounds this issue are the actions of war-time military leaders and bad record keeping. We have all heard stories of commanders issuing medals after a battle or to wounded in a MASH, but failing to note the medal on a DD214. Other service records can also be misleading. Phonies know about this loophole and obviously take full advantage of it.
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Post by Chuck T on Apr 30, 2010 22:01:03 GMT -5
I have never heard of the impact award of the MOH or DSC, but for the Silver Star and lower I suspect that there have been more than a few who have had to go back and get statements from those who witness the presentation of the award.
The way some of these impact award are conducted makes one suspect that they do not always have the desired effect. One such incident occured at the Chosin where Task Force Faith (formerly Task Force MacLain) was cut off and ultimately destroyed. During the early stages of the action LTG Almond helicoptered into the perimeter. While there he gave an impact award of the Silver Star to LTC Don Carlos Faith and so the story goes he had a couple of other Silver Stars with him so he grabed (I suppose his aide did the grabbing) a few bystanders and gave them a medal too. As soon as Almond left, maybe even before, sources vary, Faith ripped the medal off an threw it away. He was later KIA and subsequently awarded the Medal Of Honor.
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Post by sloanrodgers on May 1, 2010 5:20:16 GMT -5
I have never heard of the impact award of the MOH or DSC, but for the Silver Star and lower I suspect that there have been more than a few who have had to go back and get statements from those who witness the presentation of the award. Niether have I, but certainly lesser medals. All I'm saying is- take away the incentives for the phonies. I think better record keeping, restrictions on public uniform wear at some events and a database for the valor medals would go along way to curbing this problem. Most of the real blood and guts veterans I've known didn't even dress up in their uniforms/ medals and seldom talked about their combat experiences unless you politely pressed them. Things have changed a lot since I got out of the army.
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Post by Chuck T on May 1, 2010 10:54:13 GMT -5
I don't think things have changed all that much. I remember back in the 50's there was a show on TV called "This Is Your Life" with Ralph Edwards where they would surprise someone famous by some trickery and present their life in part through they eyes of their friends. One person who was so surprised was a United States Congressman whose name I forget who claimed to have this outstanding war record in WWII and ran for congress based upon it. Of course he was not exposed on the show but things that came out about this person on the show led to his downfall and public disgrace.
I agree in principle with you idea about the public data base, but the flip side of that is were such a base to exist it may in fact be more helpful to the pretender than a hinderence. Helpful in that using the base they may be more able to polish their stories and make them harder to detect. This would be especially true if such a data base also included citations, units of assignments and other such data.
Wearing the uniform after retirement is guided by regulations. Regulations I might add that are more noted for their breech than observance..
Another key giveaway as to the real versus the pretender is that when the real vet does talk about their combat experience they tend to talk about the others who were there with them rather than themselves. It is almost like they (the speaker) are the afterthought in their own minds.
I guess that this type of activity will never completely stop as long as we have humans rather than robots at the pointed end. The only thing that can be done I guess is make the prize (unjustified fame) unworthy of the cost
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Post by sloanrodgers on May 2, 2010 5:31:04 GMT -5
Well, I don't remember it being a big issue twenty years ago. Although I'm sure there were many incidents, the first I recall is Pres. Clinton's failed attempt to get some phony hero/ friend's body buried in Arlington National Cemetery until the truth came out. The situation has certainly gotten worse in the last decade, especially when fakes can buy medals on the internet.
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Post by Chuck T on May 18, 2010 10:58:55 GMT -5
Well, it appears that another pretender has been unmasked. The AG of Conneticut who is running for U s Senate evidently claimed on serveral occasions to have served in Vietnam. The records say otherwise. As others have pointed out there maybe some freedom of speech issues in play. That said, the most important thing in play is individual character or lack thereof.
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Post by sloanrodgers on May 19, 2010 20:25:46 GMT -5
Well, it appears that another pretender has been unmasked. The AG of Conneticut who is running for U s Senate evidently claimed on serveral occasions to have served in Vietnam. The records say otherwise. As others have pointed out there maybe some freedom of speech issues in play. That said, the most important thing in play is individual character or lack thereof. Yup, another politician playing loose with the facts, so he can get elected. It's hard to find an honest man. Here is an article on senatorial wannabe Dick Blumenthal. At least he's not telling a lot of crazy war stories or wearing a chest full of medals at veteran events. www.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/nyregion/18blumenthal.html
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Post by sloanrodgers on May 21, 2010 12:15:15 GMT -5
The few, the proud, the phoney. Here is a recent story about a fake combat Marine, who apparently joined a weird army reserve unit at the Ft. Worth Naval Air Station. Incredible, what is becoming of military record checking and security in Texas? news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_army_infiltrator
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Post by sloanrodgers on Jun 29, 2012 15:31:11 GMT -5
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Post by sloanrodgers on Jul 2, 2012 14:02:48 GMT -5
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