Houston/Bowie......Orders for the Alamo

[Joshua]

In the 2004 film, there is a scene where Houston asks Jim Bowie to retrieve the canon

from the Alamo. (Basically asking him to abandon the post,)

My question is... Did a face to face conversation between Houston and Bowie take place?

And if so, where did it take place?

Or did Houston just send a message to Bowie to go to the Alamo and bring back the canon?

Once again I am confused.... 

[stuart]

Houston and Bowie were both at Goliad on 17 January, trying to regain control of the Federal Volunteer Army in Grant's absence, when an appeal for assistance came from Neill at Bexar. Houston immediately sent Bowie north with orders to prepare the place for evacuation, but although Houston certainly wanted the fortifications demolished and the guns retrieved, he needed the specific authority of the Council to do that. In the political collapse that followed that authority never came and in any case as Grant had already taken all the horses there was no way to evacuate the guns

[Joshua]

Thank you.
Your reply is concise and gave exactly the information I wanted.

[loucapitano]

Thanks Stuart, I just want to ask, what did Santa Anna do with the 20+ cannons he captured at the Alamo? We know several were still serviceable as his troops used some against the Texans hold up in the Long Barracks. But after that, I've read some of his "after action" reports and don't remember seeing anything about artillery. Were the fort's cannons too heavy or unwieldy to transport. Did he lack the proper caissons for transport or perhaps he just wanted to travel light? Any idea?
Lou from Long Island

[boba]

Hi Lou....Santa Anna disabled the Alamo guns(cut off the trunnions & cascabels)and buried them in the northwest area of the compound(upper Casendra house area)Gen. Andrade took 3 of the guns with them when he left San Antonio.Guns were discovered in the 1850's when Sam Maverick ,digging a foundation for a fence in the area came upon them.The 18lb cannon was discovered buried near the west end of the low barracks.Lou, get"Cannons of the Texas Revolution"by James Woodrick,its all in there........Bob

[stuart]

And of course some of them are quite literally still there.

Throughout military history and not just in Texas acquiring cannon has never really been difficult as they are well nigh indestructible, which is why there were so many cannon in the Alamo in the first place. The problem is the logistics of moving them. A set of figures I always like to quote by way of illustration comes from May 1643 during the English Civil War; now OK this is 200 years before the Alamo but the circumstances are very similar.

It was decided to send some artillery from the King's headquarters at Oxford to a general who was operating about 100 miles to the west. There were just two guns; a brass 12 pounder and a mortar with 50 and 24 rounds of ammunition respectively. Yet to get them moving they needed two wagons, 10 carts and 67 horses. Very sensibly the personnel assigned to the job included a carpenter, a wheelwright and a blacksmith.

Now translate this to Texas and at this point you need to very seriously consider whether you can find the resources to move these guns and whether its going to be worth the trouble anyway, because a lot of the Alamo ordnance was old and non-standard stuff, ship's guns such as the two long nines and the gunnade, which were fine sitting in the Alamo but not suitable for normal military use - and the famous 18 pounder was a nightmare which took a long time to get up from the coast and was pretty much if not entirely out of ammunition anyway by the end of the siege

Once the Mexicans had re-taken the Alamo they were probably happy enough to incorporate the usable guns in their own defense scheme, but its easy to see why Andrade opted to abandon them when he was ordered to pull out.

[loucapitano]

Thanks Guys, just what I figured. Take what you need and leave the rest. I appreciate how tough it is to move artillery. Yet, when the motivation is there, like the transport of cannon from Fort Ticonderoga (on Lake Champlain) to Boston in 1775-76, it was accomplished in the depths of Winter. The more I think about it, with spring rains coming and bayou country ahead, it was probably wise for Santa Anna to leave most cannons behind.
And, since I'm sure he expected to expel all North Americans, he would not need to fortify San Antonio against undisciplined settlers.
I'll have to get hold of Sam Woodrick's book.
Lou from Long Island
PS: Here's a shout out for all now suffering under Harvey's catastrophe. I don't think we suffered as bad under Sandy in the Northeast because the storm left in a day. It's still raining in East Texas after three days. Our hearts and prayers are with you and be assured, we'll be there to help our fellow countrymen. God Bless You!