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Post by edward on May 2, 2014 13:42:49 GMT -5
OMG! You've ruined me! Now I'll never see it any other way!!! LOL. Ha! If you look at it with this alien element in place, it truly does make the Alamo garden look lower. (Note to self: Don't ever go camping with this feller.) P.S. -- You must be fun with an ink-blot perception test. Wow it seems I just looked at some work by M. C. Escher. LOL Here is a little more info on the Alameda: Governor Antonio Cordero planted the cottonwoods circa 1805. "the circumstances of the day require a variety of political and governmental foresight for the organization of this villa, which is going to become the metropolis of the Internal Eastern Command, recently created by his Majesty". Governor Cordero married the daughter of Ignacio Perez. Perez lived in the home that is now known as the Governor's Palace.
By 1845, the north side of the Alameda between the Alamo Acequia and Acequia Madre was owned by Edward Dwyer. He created a 25 x 25 vara memorial space for Robert Gillespie, who fell in the Battle of Monterey, on the north side of the Alameda about 101 varas east of the Alamo Acequia. It is probably the same location where one the funeral pyres of the Alamo defenders was located.
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Post by jrboddie on May 2, 2014 15:44:01 GMT -5
Edward, are you in San Antonio? I was wondering if you have access through the library of the March 26, 1911 San Antonio Express. The other thread has a scanned copy of a page from this edition with details of the Alameda but the resolution is too low to make out the full text. I would like to read the section that I posted upstream. I can almost get it but there are some intriguing parts missing.
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Post by Rich Curilla on May 2, 2014 17:07:38 GMT -5
Wow it seems I just looked at some work by M. C. Escher. Don't walk up any stair cases.
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Post by Rich Curilla on May 2, 2014 17:10:13 GMT -5
By 1845, the north side of the Alameda between the Alamo Acequia and Acequia Madre was owned by Edward Dwyer. He created a 25 x 25 vara memorial space for Robert Gillespie, who fell in the Battle of Monterey, on the north side of the Alameda about 101 varas east of the Alamo Acequia. It is probably the same location where one the funeral pyres of the Alamo defenders was located. Too bad he didn't do that at the site of the missing funeral pyre, somewhere wholly other.
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Post by Rich Curilla on May 2, 2014 17:13:56 GMT -5
So, with the good governor planting the cottonwoods in 1805, they would have only been there 31 years at the time of the battle. The questions in my mind are (1) how fast does a cottonwood grow and (2) how big were they when he planted them -- was it from a seed or sprout??? Thus, how high were they by 1836 vs. the time of Lungkwitz' painting?
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Post by jrboddie on May 2, 2014 19:54:56 GMT -5
According to the Forest Service, the Cottonwood is the fastest growing tree in North America. It can reach 130 feet in 35 years. They grow 4 to 5 feet per year until they are 25 to 30 years old. See this paper
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Post by Rich Curilla on May 3, 2014 1:02:14 GMT -5
According to the Forest Service, the Cottonwood is the fastest growing tree in North America. It can reach 130 feet in 35 years. They grow 4 to 5 feet per year until they are 25 to 30 years old. See this paperExcellent, Jim. Thanks a lot. So it is safe to assume that they could be 50 or 60 feet high by 1836. That's actually what I judge them to be in the Lungkwitz painting when compared to the figure on the road -- of course he has other paintings where his figures are waaaaay outsized compared to the natural surroundings, so no promises.
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Post by jrboddie on May 3, 2014 9:35:59 GMT -5
At least! Looks like they would have towered over everything else in the landscape.
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Post by Rich Curilla on May 3, 2014 10:29:10 GMT -5
Always figured that, just couldn't imagin HOW towering they would have been, having be planted in 1805. And, according to that excellent article, they may have even been planted with future lumber needs in mind. Apparently, the early Bexarenos planned, at least where crops were concerned, enough for their own needs but not for export. They certainly might have seen these trees as something that would generate more trees and serve the community.
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Post by bradponder on May 18, 2014 17:26:04 GMT -5
Governor Antonio Cordero planted the cottonwoods circa 1805. " the circumstances of the day require a variety of political and governmental foresight for the organization of this villa, which is going to become the metropolis of the Internal Eastern Command, recently created by his Majesty". Governor Cordero married the daughter of Ignacio Perez. Perez lived in the home that is now known as the Governor's Palace. Edward, would you mind sharing the source that you quoted from regarding Cordero? Thanks!
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Post by edward on May 18, 2014 22:40:30 GMT -5
Governor Antonio Cordero planted the cottonwoods circa 1805. " the circumstances of the day require a variety of political and governmental foresight for the organization of this villa, which is going to become the metropolis of the Internal Eastern Command, recently created by his Majesty". Governor Cordero married the daughter of Ignacio Perez. Perez lived in the home that is now known as the Governor's Palace. Edward, would you mind sharing the source that you quoted from regarding Cordero? Thanks! With the Makers of San Antonio: Frederick C. Chabot I am out of town, so I can not give you the page number nor the references he sites since I do not have my book with me.
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Post by edward on Jun 2, 2014 9:53:06 GMT -5
Alameda- MSA page 238-239. At bottom of page 238. I converted it to BW to reduce the size.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jun 2, 2014 22:50:03 GMT -5
Great! After just reading two pages, I want the whole book! How refreshing to read Chabot again. Thanks for digging for this.
And I'm glad your back! It was getting lonely here. lol.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jun 2, 2014 22:53:38 GMT -5
At least! Looks like they would have towered over everything else in the landscape. Looky here! Here is a photo of a full-grown cottonwood tree in the Menger garden many years ago -- just 150 yards from the Alameda location!
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Post by jrboddie on Jun 3, 2014 10:04:11 GMT -5
Nice find. 40 - 50 feet would you say?
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