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Post by Jim Boylston on Jan 27, 2014 10:59:18 GMT -5
Clay is a big deal here in KY, Did he and Crockett get along? I always thought he did not think much of David and they were on different sides a lot in Congress? Crockett ran for his first term as a Jackson supporter but, in what was likely an astute political move, he requested an audience with Clay upon his arrival in Washington City. Clay's nephew delivered the request, warning Clay that though Crockett might appear uncouth, he had unprecedented support in his district and was a man to whom Clay should pay attention. He specifically noted that Crockett was probably the only man in his district who could openly oppose Jackson and still win...a curious statement considering Crockett's public stance. He obviously confided in Clay's nephew his misgivings about Jackson. In "David Crockett in Congress," we go into some detail about Crockett's public/private relationship with the Jackson camp. His private split with Jackson came long before his public denouncement of Old Hickory and his embrace of the Whigs. Jim
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Post by rayjr on Feb 2, 2014 16:21:51 GMT -5
Hello,
I located my "American Lion", by Jon Meacham, and "The Life & Times of..." by H.W. Brands. Neither have any specific mention of Jackson's thoughts regarding David after the fall. The closest is the response to Stephen F Austin mentioned in the American Lion.
One interesting fact, is the night of Andrew's death - a late arrival at his bedside at the Hermitage is Sam Houston and his wife & young son. They were racing against time to reach Jackson before he passed. Brands has a quote, related to Marquis James by the elder daughter of Houston; "My son, try to remember that you have looked on the face of Andrew Jackson." The son is 1 year old. My guess is - he does not recall...
I think it might be worth an interesting essay to discuss the possible position that Andrew held towards Texas in general, we kind of know his high level intentions, but to discuss the politics of this might be worthwhile - and in particular the role that various agents played in this politics. For example, Crockett, Houston, and Gaines all fought under Jackson - all 3 important players in the saga of Texas.
Regards, Ray
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Post by Allen Wiener on Feb 11, 2014 14:33:51 GMT -5
Regarding his views on the Alamo, Jackson hosted Santa Anna and Almonte at the White House long after San Jacinto and the Mexican president's incarceration in Texas. It is not really clear what was said during the White House meeting, but this excerpt from the TAMU website, taken from the Sons of Dewitt Colony website, is interesting: "The real story of Santa Anna's trip to Washington has never been widely known. There was a determined fight in the American Congress, which convened in the autumn of 1836, upon the recognition of Texas' independence. Jackson's administration was coming to a close and he was to be succeeded the following March by Van Buren and the new administration was very conservative about the recognition of Texas, or any other act that would bring on war with Mexico. Houston, who became President of Texas in September, 1836, sent William H. Wharton, Minister to the United States, to negotiate for annexation. President Houston conceived that it would materially help the situation if Santa Anna would go in person to Washington and say to President Jackson that Mexico did not intend to make an effort to reconquer Texas. This would be an answer to the critics in Congress who were urging that the recognition of Texas would be considered an unfriendly act by Mexico. It was one of the conditions of Santa Anna's release that he should do this, and though he was authentically liberated when he left Texas under a military escort, in fact he was a quasi prisoner until he left Washington. He carried out his part of the bargain and in private conversations with President Jackson gave the message that he had been sent to deliver and this was a powerful aid to the recognition of Texas which was accomplished during the last hours of the Jackson administration." Here is a link to the full piece: www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dewitt/santaanna4.htmJackson was a hateful, vindictive man and at least one authority has suggested that he may have been the only president who was a sociopath. He almost never forgot or forgave anyone who crossed him. As Jim pointed out, he continued his vendetta against Crockett into the next generation and wrote scathingly about Crockett's son. The lone exception may be the Benton brothers (Thomas Hart and Jesse). The Bentons were bitter enemies of Jackson and fought a brutal barroom brawl with him that left Jackson with two near-fatal bullet wounds. He nearly lost his arm, but miraculously pulled through. Nonetheless, Thomas Hart Benton later became a staunch ally and supporter of Jackson's and Old Hickory reciprocated. Maybe you had to fight or shoot Jackson to gain his approval or respect.
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Post by rayjr on Feb 23, 2014 15:50:50 GMT -5
I tend to agree with you & many others relative to Andrew Jackson. There is actually a new book out on him that purportedly tells another side of his personality called; "Andrew Jackson,Southerner" by Mark Renfred Cheatham. Essentially arguing a new perspective that Jackson was not really a "frontiersman", but rather a "southern elitist". I am not completely sure this is a new viewpoint - and interestingly he does not include the Brands biography in his references.
I wonder though what would be the point of Santa Anna meeting with Jackson in secret as an effort to persuade Congress. Congress was well aware of Jackson's position, and unless they became immediately aware of Santa Anna's testimony - why would they trust a secret meeting? I doubt many would trust his testimony in any regard. Anyway, perhaps lost to history.
regards, Ray
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Post by pff on May 9, 2014 17:37:00 GMT -5
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Post by Allen Wiener on May 10, 2014 8:42:39 GMT -5
Clay was Jackson's strongest rival and likely at the top of Jackson's "enemies list." Many in Congress opposed Indian Removal and Removal Bill only passed the House by 3 votes. When you strip away all the rhetoric, it was a land grab. Whites wanted Cherokee land, and gold had been discovered there, and that was that.
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