cje
Full Member
Posts: 60
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Post by cje on Aug 3, 2013 23:48:19 GMT -5
I have read from a few sources about left over ammunition the Mexicans left behind inside the Alamo in December 1835 following General's Cos' departure. But men like David Crockett and others came to the Alamo with their own personal supply of shot and powder. I just have to wonder about how many rounds they would have brought with them?
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Post by George Mabry on Aug 6, 2013 19:24:41 GMT -5
Interesting question. I wouldn't think shot would have been a problem once the Texans took Bexar and the Alamo. If the Mexicans had all that powder stored up, they would have had the lead to go with it too is my guess. I am curious though as to where one would go back then to "buy" powder. Were was the nearest powder mill? How would a citizen of Gonzales say, go to purchase powder? Where would a powder merchant in Gonzales go to resupply? I can't recall ever reading anything about that.
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Post by mjbrathwaite on Aug 6, 2013 20:20:33 GMT -5
For what it's worth, Steve Frazee's book mentions "a great amount of defective powder" left in the sacristy by the Mexicans (page 43). I don't recall having seen anything about that it in the eyewitness accounts, although I may have. I notice some of the other bits of his book obviously come from eyewitness accounts, so wonder if that does too.
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Post by estebans on Aug 7, 2013 3:14:49 GMT -5
IIRC, Travis's Feb. 20, 1836 receipt to Luciano Navarro includes 25 lbs. of powder and three large bars of lead. I believe it's considered unclear whether the Texians bought everything on the receipt, or if some of it was stuff the Mexicans had not paid for before surrendering in 1835, with Navarro trying to get an IOU out of the Texian side as well before leaving town ahead of Santa Anna, so that he would be covered no matter who won. Either way, somebody bought 25 lbs. of powder for the Alamo from Navarro's general store then. How far does that go with 150 actives and roughly 20 cannons? Travis was asking for more powder up to the end, too, wasn't he? I have the impression that the Battle of Concepcion was the point where the Texians began to remark the poor quality of the Mexican army's powder. Here is a link to an article on the role of U.S.-made powder in the Texas Revolution. It seems Texians preferred DuPont powder from the States: texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth101121/m1/117/?q=M. L. Crimmins In 1842, general merchant John Twohig took pleasure in leaving slow matches burning to many kegs of powder in his San Antonio warehouse as the Vasquez raid entered town. So I guess the Texians used imported powder bought from such merchants whenever they could, and having your own bullet mold was imperative. The "Davy Crockett" possibles bag bought by Phil Collins from the de la Pena descendants had six bullets in it, which tells us exactly nothing, but was something I couldn't help noticing. Would they have had more rifle bullets onboard, if they'd had some time to cast a few and weight didn't matter because they didn't expect to travel far, or was wood too scarce for casting fires? Surely someone knows more about the state of local powder production, etc. I wonder whether either side was accustomed to prolonged exchanges of fire; the Mexicans certainly didn't anticipate it in the assault, did they? Stephen Schneider
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Post by texian1845 on Jun 15, 2015 15:53:53 GMT -5
Just joined the forum. I have read Perez's and de la Pena's comments concerning the number of longarms remaining at the Alamo following the final attack, but nothing about how much powder remained. Are there any references concerning the pre/post Alamo stand regards the amount of imported, e.g. Dupont, powder in the armory stores vs poor Mexican powder? From anecdotal remarks from the December engagements in Bexar, the Mexican powder sometimes resulted in shots that simply bounced off their intended Texian targets.
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Post by texian1845 on Jun 15, 2015 15:55:59 GMT -5
Just joined the forum. I have read Perez's and de la Pena's comments concerning the number of longarms remaining at the Alamo following the final attack, but nothing about how much powder remained. Are there any references concerning the pre/post Alamo stand regards the amount of imported, e.g. Dupont, powder in the armory stores vs poor Mexican powder? From anecdotal remarks from the December engagements in Bexar, the Mexican powder sometimes resulted in shots that simply bounced off their intended Texian targets.
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Post by texian1845 on Jun 15, 2015 16:52:56 GMT -5
I too would be interested in powder production during the Texas Revolution. During the ACW powder was produced for the Confederacy from several mills located in and near the Texas hill country, including the Anderson Powder Mill nw of Austin. Before and after the ACW it was a grain mill. Except for sulfur which had to be imported from Mexico all other ingredients were found locally: Nitre extracted from bat guano found in the numerous caves and charcoal from cedar, rather than willow. So it was technically possible for the Texian colonists to have made some kind of powder which lacked sulfur which would make a powder, but which might have been hard to ignite.
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Post by rayjr on Jun 28, 2015 18:22:40 GMT -5
And then there is the "Powder Mill"constructed by the Spanish.
Old Powder Mill 1751 E. Commerce Street
I have heard this was a rally point of Steven Austin prior to the Siege of Bexar... Ray
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jun 29, 2015 11:02:39 GMT -5
Are you referring to the Powder House and Watch Tower, A.K.A. The Garita? Why do you call it a "mill?" It was simply a magazine built in the first decade of the 19th. century, a storage place for gunpowder. Austin, at some point, passed by there. It was farther east than that address, according to all accounts. Where did you see that address attached to it?
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Post by rayjr on Jun 29, 2015 18:40:48 GMT -5
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jun 30, 2015 0:26:24 GMT -5
Ha! Historical Commission. Sort of like "History" Channel.
This one tickles me too:
Site of de la Garza House, Gardens and Mint 100 E. Houston Street
In the 1700s this was the family home of prominent Bexar citizens Geronimo and Javiera Cantu de la Garza. The complex occupied an entire city block with walls three feet thick, gardens of cottonwood, pecan, fig and peach trees. When it was demolished over 150 years later, a large sum of money was found hidden in the house, and a sixteen-pound cannonball was discovered embedded in the walls.
This would be the 1835 Jose Antonio de la Garza house, which played as prominent a part in the Battle of Bexar as the Veramendi House. Yes, the whole block was owned by de la Garza, but the house did not face on what was to become Houston St. as suggested by the marker. It faced south on Veramendi Alley, which no longer exists due to high-rise buildings obliterating it. Interesting that the Historical Commission makes no mention of the building's major participation in the Battle. Isn't that sort of like referring to the Alamo simply as a barracks in 1836? The 16 pound cannon ball could well have been from that battle -- Cos had one in the Alamo and it was probably aimed at the back of the Veramendi house. An overshoot could indeed have hit the de la Garza house just 200 feet beyond it to the west.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jun 30, 2015 1:12:20 GMT -5
I don't think you confused a thing. All the confusion comes from the Historical Commission: wrong name, wrong location, wrong function...... There is no evidence of any other structure existing up on Powder House Hill near the Powder House and Watch Tower.
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