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Post by loucapitano on Jul 30, 2011 16:59:15 GMT -5
Herb, thanks, that clears up a lot about Williamson and the reinforcements that were supposed to reach the Alamo. Since it appears Bonham was the last outsider to enter the Alamo, and Smith was the last courior to leave, there is a gap of information about the Alamo garrison on March 4th and 5th. We know what Santa Anna was doing. And we know what some of the Mexicans thought Travis was doing, but we really don't know except for the unproven Moses Rose story of "crossing the line." Some authors think Travis was looking for a way to surrender honorably. Others say he was steadfast in his resolve to stay. And, some think he was planning an escape. I'd like to know what you guys think. Some of my sources say "All of the above."
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Post by Herb on Jul 30, 2011 19:26:17 GMT -5
Glenn, the article was in the Mar 2010 issue.
I'm not the one to talk about Highsmith, I really haven't studied the couriers that much. What I have been working on for years, since I first met Tom Lindley, and talked with him about a "second" reinforcement, is tracking down the movements of Seguin, Chenoweth, Sutherland, Smith, and Neil (yes there's an account about Neil also leading an aborted reinforcement attempt). It's like trying to grasp water. Though the efforts - except for the 32 -failed, there was quite a bit going on.
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Post by elcolorado on Jul 31, 2011 10:09:43 GMT -5
I'm inclined to believe that Travis wasn't looking to surrender. When you closely examine his letters of March 3, you see a man who is frustrated with the lack or response from the provisional government, Sam Houston, and Fannin. However, his resolve never waivers.
There was a time when I felt Travis may have considered throwing in the towel, but the letters from Goliad convinced me otherwise.
Evidence clearly indicates that a courier left the Alamo on the evening of the March 5 and arrived in Goliad on March 8. The arrival of the courier tells us a couple of things: 1. Travis probably wasn't thinking of surrender. 2. He had not completely given up on the idea of Fannin reinforcing the Alamo. 3. As of late evening of March 5, there were no more than 200 defenders in the Alamo. This puts another hole into the second reinforcement theory. 4. The courier provided some details such as the walls were taking a serious beating, cannon battery placement, the arrival of the 32 from Gonzales, but there was no mention of surrender.
The courier in question is believed to be James Allen, but this isn't ironclad.
The above reasons don't prove that Travis wasn't toying with the idea of some sort of surrender, but simply indicate it was unlikely.
~Glenn
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Post by Herb on Jul 31, 2011 11:06:45 GMT -5
Lou: There had to be a courier, after Mar 3rd, both Brooks and Duval wrote letters from Goliad on March 9 and 10, after an "express" from San Antonio. These letters contain information not in Travis' letter of March 3rd. This 'newer' information includes the erection of the Mexican north battery at 400 yds from the wall and that shots were now going through the walls. Travis' report to Houston on March 3rd despite an in depth report on the Mexican positions makes no mention of a north battery and he mentions the walls have been proof against the artillery. Very clearly the letters from Goliad are from a courier after Mar 3rd. Whether or not that was Allen is another matter.
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Post by loucapitano on Aug 1, 2011 12:11:39 GMT -5
Right again Herb. I dug a little deeper and read that James L. Allen (perhaps age 16 - like Frankie Avalon's Smitty) was dispatched at dusk of the 5th with a final appeal to Goliad. I'm amazed that several of my source books failed to include this courier. Do you know where I might find a copy of this letter? I understand it ends bravely with "God and Texas - Victory or Death, but I'd like to see the rest of it. Maybe if Allen Wiener reads this he may have a link to share.
Two authors, Nofi and Long give creedence to Filisola's report that an honorable surrender was attempted, but Santa Anna rebuffed it and demanded "surrender at discretion" which I understand would be a mass death sentence that Travis had to refuse. Thanks for all your help....Lou
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Post by Allen Wiener on Aug 3, 2011 0:20:54 GMT -5
Lou - I'm vacationing in California until next week, so nowhere near my books. I think Herb or Kevin can provide the info.
Allen
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Post by sloanrodgers on Aug 3, 2011 12:25:00 GMT -5
There were clearly a few dubious alleged Alamo messengers, but what is the story on Gerald Naven? He appears in a few lists as a messenger and survivor of the initial siege, but information on Naven and his heroism seems extremely meager. The Texas muster roll index and Hansen's book are two of the few places where Naven is noted.
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Post by Hiram on Aug 4, 2011 17:22:34 GMT -5
There is some information that indicates Navan may have been a Siege of Bexar veteran (diary of Adolphus Sterne.) In January 1836, Green B. Jameson recommended to Houston that Navan be appointed sutler of the Alamo garrison. It appears that Navan had some knowledge of the men who made up the garrison, but as for being a courier, no information that can be documented. Amelia Williams has him listed as a "probable" courier, so Navan's name was left off the old courier plaque that was formally displayed in the Alamo Shrine.
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Post by sloanrodgers on Aug 7, 2011 17:12:22 GMT -5
There is some information that indicates Navan may have been a Siege of Bexar veteran (diary of Adolphus Sterne.) In January 1836, Green B. Jameson recommended to Houston that Navan be appointed sutler of the Alamo garrison. It appears that Navan had some knowledge of the men who made up the garrison, but as for being a courier, no information that can be documented. Amelia Williams has him listed as a "probable" courier, so Navan's name was left off the old courier plaque that was formally displayed in the Alamo Shrine. Yea, everything I've found on Gerald Naven seems to be pre-March '36, which is probably why some have excluded him as a messenger/ survivor. I also can't find a single republic claim, land grant, newspaper reference for Mr. Naven, but I guess it's possible that he was there at some point during the siege. He just became a ghost afterward.
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Post by sloanrodgers on Apr 12, 2012 20:28:39 GMT -5
Here's another alleged Alamo courier. George Webb Slaughter is noted in numerous books (including John Graves' Goodbye to a River) and places on the internet as a messenger for Gen. Houston. He supposedly delivered a desperate order to Travis to burn the Alamo down in the last days and flee, but I can't find a single 19th Century source for this story. I can't even verify that G.W. Slaughter served during the Texas army (no pay records, muster roll, service land grant, etc.) or any capacity during the revolution. What makes this remarkable is that his portrait apparently hangs (donated to the DAR ca. 1933) somewhere in the Alamo Museum and his Alamo service is conspicuously noted on his historical marker. Has anyone heard of this fellow before and has Slaughter's tale been researched? Is there any evidence for this hot messenger service? www.9key.com/markers/marker_detail.asp?atlas_number=5363006270
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Post by Hollowhorn on Apr 13, 2012 14:07:09 GMT -5
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Post by sloanrodgers on Apr 13, 2012 22:18:20 GMT -5
Yes, I have those pictures in John Henry Brown's book.
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Post by sloanrodgers on Apr 30, 2012 18:24:21 GMT -5
Here's another alleged Alamo courier. George Webb Slaughter is noted in numerous books (including John Graves' Goodbye to a River) and places on the internet as a messenger for Gen. Houston. He supposedly delivered a desperate order to Travis to burn the Alamo down in the last days and flee, but I can't find a single 19th Century source for this story. I can't even verify that G.W. Slaughter served during the Texas army (no pay records, muster roll, service land grant, etc.) or any capacity during the revolution. What makes this remarkable is that his portrait apparently hangs (donated to the DAR ca. 1933) somewhere in the Alamo Museum and his Alamo service is conspicuously noted on his historical marker. Has anyone heard of this fellow before and has Slaughter's tale been researched? Is there any evidence for this hot messenger service? www.9key.com/markers/marker_detail.asp?atlas_number=5363006270Guess not.
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