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Post by Allen Wiener on Feb 17, 2011 0:58:35 GMT -5
Well, four is a "nice round number," and if you need a foursome, Bonham's as good a choice as any, but I'm guessing its the tale of his "returning though knowingly doomed" that gives him special consideration.
Thanks for posting that info, Hiram; I did not know of the earlier inclusion of Bonham. Serves me right for not being more observant. I've probably walked right past that fountain dozens of times.
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Post by Hiram on Feb 17, 2011 0:59:13 GMT -5
Travis as I've said was honoured from the outset and Crockett only later overtook him in fame and popularity, but where did Bowie really come in as a hero in his own right? Stuart,
Interesting take on Crockett having to overcome Travis in terms of fame and popularity. I did some research involving Eastern newspapers in 1836 and the most significant item I found on Travis was that they misspelled his name.
I'm not claiming that Travis was anonymous in the 19th century, my position is that Travis was not elevated to the highest level that Bowie and Crockett occupied until the "drawing the line" story became accepted as genuine in the late 19th century through its inclusion in Pennypacker's History of Texas.
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Post by Hiram on Feb 17, 2011 1:10:20 GMT -5
I'm guessing its the tale of his "returning though knowingly doomed" that gives him special consideration. Definitely the "return of Bonham" magazine article secured his position in the lore of the Alamo. JBB is mentioned in some of the earliest newspaper accounts, but being mentioned by name is not the same as being apotheosized. It's the "complete the mission or die in the attempt" that elevates Bonham.
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Post by stuart on Feb 17, 2011 2:22:56 GMT -5
Travis as I've said was honoured from the outset and Crockett only later overtook him in fame and popularity, but where did Bowie really come in as a hero in his own right? Stuart,
Interesting take on Crockett having to overcome Travis in terms of fame and popularity. I did some research involving Eastern newspapers in 1836 and the most significant item I found on Travis was that they misspelled his name.
I'm not claiming that Travis was anonymous in the 19th century, my position is that Travis was not elevated to the highest level that Bowie and Crockett occupied until the "drawing the line" story became accepted as genuine in the late 19th century through its inclusion in Pennypacker's History of Texas.My argument's a little more subtle. So far as Texians were concerned at the time and during the republic period Travis (a Texian) and the Alamo went together. He was in command while Crockett was an admittedly famous volunteer serving under him. However to the American volunteers coming into Texas to fight in the revolution and afterwards Crockett was the main man and as they grew to become the majority of the population Crockett's importance grew with them.
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Post by Kevin Young on Feb 17, 2011 9:36:04 GMT -5
I just finished reading The Reminiscences of Major General Zenas R. Bliss, 1854-1876. College Station, TX: Texas A&M University Press with Texas State Historical Association. which is a fantastic look at frontier Texas and San Antonio before, during, and after the CW. There are tons of detail descriptions and stories in here, including of several communities and forts, but Bliss only mentions the Alamo once and in passing as the Army Depot.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Feb 17, 2011 9:51:18 GMT -5
It's interesting to retrace this. As to Bowie, I'm not sure exactly what sort of reputation he had, either in Texas or elsewhere, other than as a land swindler and slave smuggler. Andrew Jackson was aware of him and mentioned him in some letters in an unflattering light. I haven't read Davis's "Three Roads" in a while, but my recollection is that his portrait of Bowie is not flattering. Apparently, Bowie requested a commission in the Texas army several times, or ran for election, and failed every time. I believe he finally was granted the rank of colonel, but I don't recall how. He proved himself capable in the field and his courage was never questioned (Sand Bar, San Saba, Concepcion, Grass Fight, as well as the Alamo). I'm guessing that dying in the Alamo sealed his status as a hero and "inventor of the knife which bears his name," as we've so often read. However, I don't recall reading about any evidence that Bowie ever used the knife in anger other than at the Sand Bar, or confirmation that he carried one all the time. I'm also not sure if he actually "invented" the knife or modified a design of his brother Rezin's.
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Post by Kevin Young on Feb 17, 2011 10:48:40 GMT -5
It's interesting to retrace this. As to Bowie, I'm not sure exactly what sort of reputation he had, either in Texas or elsewhere, other than as a land swindler and slave smuggler. Andrew Jackson was aware of him and mentioned him in some letters in an unflattering light. I haven't read Davis's "Three Roads" in a while, but my recollection is that his portrait of Bowie is not flattering. Apparently, Bowie requested a commission in the Texas army several times, or ran for election, and failed every time. I believe he finally was granted the rank of colonel, but I don't recall how. He proved himself capable in the field and his courage was never questioned (Sand Bar, San Saba, Concepcion, Grass Fight, as well as the Alamo). I'm guessing that dying in the Alamo sealed his status as a hero and "inventor of the knife which bears his name," as we've so often read. However, I don't recall reading about any evidence that Bowie ever used the knife in anger other than at the Sand Bar, or confirmation that he carried one all the time. I'm also not sure if he actually "invented" the knife or modified a design of his brother Rezin's. Somewhere (and the Iron Mistress may have helped this) the Bowie Knife became the Texas Excaliber and Black making the knife was nothing less than Vulcan at his forge...
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Post by Allen Wiener on Feb 17, 2011 11:09:42 GMT -5
Perhaps Bowie's status grew as a result of his death at the Alamo, along with the knife's status, whereas Crockett was already a national figure when he got to the Alamo.
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