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Post by Rich Curilla on Sept 5, 2013 20:04:09 GMT -5
Hahahaha! And I just read Jim's post (written while I was posting mine). Looks like the book on the missions didn't help him.
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Post by estebans on Sept 6, 2013 15:52:32 GMT -5
Speaking of Alamo novelizations, I dug up a little gem titled: "The Blazing Dawn" by James Wakefield Burke, A Pyramid paperback from 1975. I'm not sure it's entirely original, espcially the Bowie parts, but it kept my interest when I first read it. I re-read it recently and concluded it wasn't so bad. In fact, it was rather entertaining. Plus, the epilogue ends in the Menger Hotel, my favorite place. Lou from Long Island Burke wrote a bad Crockett novel some years ago, and another Alamo novel called, "Devil on the Wall," wherein a couple of defenders fire up a joint during the siege. Here's an excerpt: Whatever gets you through the night. "Blazing Dawn" indeed! Maybe not far-fetched at all--Nance's Attack and Counterattack offers this vignette of the occupation of Laredo by the Somervell expedition: "During the evening a number of the men became intoxicated with mescal, marihuana, and aguardiente which they found stored in some of the houses in Laredo" (516). The source is H. A. Adams' manuscript journal of the expedition. Lumping it in with mescal and aguardiente probably indicates the race/class stigma it would have had, as the type of thing your less respectable sort of Texas volunteer did, which didn't fit the myth the early chroniclers of the RoT were constructing. I had to wonder how much of a factor it was for soldiers marching on foot on both sides, per the lyrics of "La Cucaracha" a few years later, or for getting Mexican soldiers to charge nests of Texian rifles at the battles of the Salado or Mier, or reports of indolence and fractiousness of Texian volunteers--I mean, they knew what to do with it when they found it in Laredo. Was it a last resort for Texians who couldn't afford to drink?
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Post by Jim Boylston on Sept 6, 2013 17:32:42 GMT -5
Interesting. I don't think I've seen this mentioned in any other period sources. Are there others?
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Post by estebans on Sept 7, 2013 20:06:52 GMT -5
I just stumbled across that earlier this year--I was looking for Juan Nepomuceno Margain and Nance is so thorough that he's got "marihuana" in the index, or else I might never have noticed it. I haven't seen any other references yet, but there's apparently a recent book by Isaac Campos called Home Grown which looks at the history of Mexico's war on drugs and might explain where marijuana fit into the regional culture that affected early Texas. One thing I've been looking into is tobacco smuggling from Texas into Mexico, and Ulysses S. Grant remarks on that in his memoirs--to him it seemed like every Mexican on the Rio Grande had a corn-shuck cigarette going all the time, and Grant thought they preferred tobacco that hadn't paid duty. Just the Google snippets of Campos' book indicate that a lot of the time, that corn-shuck cigarette was probably what would be called a "blunt" in modern parlance--pot in there with the tobacco. Now I'm going to be suspicious of every mention of "rank-smelling tobacco" that I run across, and I'm going to have to read at least the first part of Campos' book.
A couple of decades ago, I had read an interpretation of one verse of "La Cucaracha" as Mexican Revolution-era foot soldiers needing marijuana in order to march, but now online I see that being read as Huerta wanting to smoke pot instead of moving. But apparently there is a plethora of verses for the song floating around and there may have been more than one marijuana verse. I hope Campos' book will explain some of what was going on then, and earlier. I was struck by an incident in Brian DeLay's War of a Thousand Deserts, where more than a hundred people in a desperately poor Mexican frontier town were killed because they tried to fight a huge Comanche raid with rocks and sticks and knives, having no guns. Were they just so sick of the raids that they didn't care anymore, or did somebody give a really persuasive speech, or was everyone so high on something that they didn't care? Maybe pervasive marijuana use was something that we have to factor into our view of that region in that period, even if it did not get much traction at all in Anglo culture.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Sept 8, 2013 14:49:45 GMT -5
Hahahaha! One would never guess this is a thread on John Lee Hancock's THE ALAMO. What are you fellas smokin'
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Post by estebans on Sept 13, 2013 18:45:54 GMT -5
Hahahaha! One would never guess this is a thread on John Lee Hancock's THE ALAMO. What are you fellas smokin' Ssshh, Rich--the authorities'll never look here! Seriously, though, I did realize it's a digression, and once I get a look at the Isaac Campos book, I'll give that its own thread. A quick look at the Portal to Texas History showed some of what Campos talks about, as ca. 1890, Texas papers start reprinting the first wave of "reefer madness" items from Mexican newspapers, usually involving soldados or armed rancheros supposedly going berserk under the influence. I hadn't known that Mexico outlawed pot in 1920, several years before the U. S. did, with much of the same type of race/class stigmatizing involved.
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Post by Bill Yowell on Sept 19, 2013 12:21:00 GMT -5
Do you baby boomers such as I think that todays youth were stirred by Alamo 04 the way we were by Disney in the early fifties. There was certainly a lot more to sink you teeth into than what we had. I entered David Crockett Elem. School in Sherman, Texas back in 1952. Other than a large picture portrayal of him in the main hall next to the principals office, I had absolutely no idea of who the man was. I also remember the comic book type history of Texas that we got, but never using it for as much as a discussion. Until 7th grade when I happened on to Lon Tinkles' "Thirteen Days to Glory", I don't think that I had read a book whose three main characters weren't Dick, Jane, and a dog named Spot. The Tinkle book was what really stirred me to find out all I could about the Alamo. But I digress. Even though "Davey at the Alamo" was the end to a very entertaining series, I remember feeling a real sense of appreciation for heroism, sacrifice, and what the price of freedom really is. I wonder if Alamo 2004 was that for the youth of today, or was it just a movie.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Sept 23, 2013 15:05:49 GMT -5
Here is a link to a page on the John Wayne Alamo forum if you want to see a shining example of how John Wayne's movie effected us Baby Boomers. "Beekeeper" just joined the forum and tells us of his first experience seeing "The Alamo" in 70mm Todd-AO at the New York opening in 1960. While I never got to see the road show version in 70mm with the giant movie palace experience he did, my first experience with the film itself (in a drive-in theater near Exton, PA, with 3-inch car speaker mono) was just as thrilling and life-changing. And my dad drove me 100 miles just so we could see this movie that I had awaited anxiously for months. johnwayne-thealamo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5&start=1260Starting, as I did as well, with Disney's Davy at the age of seven (a most impressionable age), all else disappeared from my "playroom." No more Lone Ranger. No more Hoppy. No more Superman! I was hooked on Fess Parker's Davy Crockett -- and particularly on the Alamo segment. In later years, I have speculated with others that much of the grab was because -- suddenly -- the sidekick gets killed, as do all the main characters, and there's Davy swinging away with a million enemy soldiers surrounding him. AND IT DISSOLVES TO THE FLAGS! Quite a blow for a kid who thought people lived forever -- and they definitely did on fifties TV. But now I gravitate more to the theory that the character presented by Disney and Fess Parker in the show simply captured my imagination. He wasn't squeaky-clean and definitely made mistakes -- in other words, more human than earlier TV and B-western heroes. And while we talk down to children today with our "children's films," kids GET this stuff, and Disney pulled no punches. I was somehow aware that Disney's Davy was letting me see into a bigger world. Then Lon Tinkle's book came out. Again, my dad ordered one from McGraw-Hill and helped me read it from cover to cover -- the first real book I ever read. This is where I first began to visualize the real thing and place. Later, my personal Alamo journey would take me up into two consecutive San Fernando Church bell towers, first at Alamo Village with art director Alfred Ybarra's fantasy version and later on Michael Corenblith's awesomely accurate set for "The Alamo." (2004). I studied filmmaking and history and criticism in college as a result of my interest in the Alamo films and spent my summers working at Alamo Village, Wayne's set. Will John Lee Hancock's "The Alamo" have the same effect on young people? Well, with not being a film for kids (it is PG-13), it got to miss out on capturing children like us in their most impressionable age. I do, however, clearly see its effect on teens and olders who aren't stuck with our baby boomers' view of film art. Kristi Hale (on the other forum) is a clear example of a younger person not into John Wayne's "The Alamo" at all -- hates Widmark's Bowie -- and has (I believe) never seen Disney's "Davy Crockett" or Republic's "The Last Command," but she is now thoroughly immersed in Alamo interest BECAUSE of JLH's "The Alamo." She loves the movie as we did Davy and Duke. She drove from Dallas to San Antonio in order to see it being shown in the Alamo garden several weeks ago. Likewise, Wade Dillon, who was a 13-year-old living in Florida with his dad during JLH's filming in 2003, was e-mailing me during production wanting to know everything I couldn't tell him. He and his dad now live in San Antonio. Wade works at the Alamo and is a fine Alamo living historian. He was 100 percent inspired by the film. I think though that the "youth" that JLH's "The Alamo" had the opportunity to inspire was an older youth than possible with Disney's Davy and Duke's "The Alamo." This unfortunately misses that highly impressionable pre-teen audience (who are being sadly neglected these days, IMO). So, perhaps it won't have a lasting effect. Another issue might be a film's universality. John Wayne told a highly fictionalized story that was more about life, family, growth, love, courage, honor and honesty than it was about the historic Alamo. Thus it had many universal concepts and appealed to a vast international audience. John Lee's film was about -- the Alamo -- and a "dry-eyed" attempt at that. He chose not to try to make us "feel" but rather to understand the simple, yet very complicated, dilemma of coming to grips with one's own life. As a filmmaker, he did this very well and very subtly. As an example, the fine Carter Burwell score for the film was designed as "a lament," to use John Lee's own word. As a minimalist score, it was meant not to be head but to strongly effect the audience on a subliminal level. This it did superbly. However, it didn't result in a "memorable film score" like Dimitri Tiomkin's 1960 treatment. Probably more than half of what has glued me to "The Alamo" (1960) is that awesome music score (just recently restored and rerecorded in full by Nic Raine and the City of Progue Philharmonic Orchestra). So there is one element alone, I'm afraid, which make the later Alamo film less memorable. And no "Davy...Davy Crockett" jangling for fifteen weeks on TV's "Your Hit Parade!" I look forward to John Lee's "The Alamo" being eventually appreciated as (1) the fine film that it is with a challenge for future filmmakers, and (2) the best representation ever of Alamo history on the screen. I think that, if Ron Howard had made the film he wanted to make (an R-rated, period, Private Ryan), then it would have been, as you say, "just a movie" -- gory, violent and a flash-in-the-pan. John Lee Hancock's treatment is far more honest and, I believe, universal as a "stand" in our modern and distressed world. However, like you, I wonder what exists in the film world that could "inspire" kids as Davy and Duke did.
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Post by Bill Yowell on Sept 24, 2013 20:33:21 GMT -5
Rich, Thank you so much for your reply to my post and to link to Beekeepers recollections of his first viewing of Waynes Alamo. While on that site I tried to log in and got the response that my password was not recognized and I would need to contact the administrator. I found no way to do that, so if you could advise me of the procedure I need to follow to establish myself as a contributor to that site I would appreciate it. Sincerest thanks, Bill Yowell
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Post by Rich Curilla on Sept 26, 2013 22:04:56 GMT -5
Bill, check your PM's. I sent you Mo's e-mail.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Oct 8, 2013 22:53:13 GMT -5
Attachment DeletedAttachment DeletedAttachment DeletedKristi Hale and I visited the Reimers Ranch one last time two Saturdays ago and took a few pictures of the location as it is now, over a year after the wildfires that burned Michael Corenblith's sets for The Alamo (2004) to the ground. 1) The site of San Fernando Church -- all that remains are the trees Michael planted in the church yard. 2) One of set decorator Carla Curry's dugout water troughs. There was another nearby. 3) A Carla-built carreta survived the fires!
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Post by Rich Curilla on Oct 8, 2013 23:15:44 GMT -5
Attachment DeletedAttachment DeletedAttachment Deleted1) Looking toward the Alamo along Potrero Street from town. The gap in the trees is where the after-Zaboly bridge was located. This is approximately the angle used for Travis' (Patrick Wilson) first view of the Alamo. 2) All that is left of the bridge are these warped steel beams that Michael used underneath it so they would run heavy equipment over it. We are looking back toward Bexar in this picture. 3) The site of the Alamo compound from the hill to the historic south (actually the east). The hard top road at the extreme right of the picture was a movie crew service road that ran along the unfinished back side of the Alamo compound. The bare area just left of that was the church on the near end and the Long Barrack beyond it. To the left of that was the plaza.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Oct 8, 2013 23:25:02 GMT -5
Attachment DeletedKristi found gold! The remains of the Alamo's abatis. Attachment DeletedAnd a living memory of the Corenblithamo: the Pecan tree that he planted outside the northwest corner of the compound.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Oct 8, 2013 23:37:03 GMT -5
Attachment DeletedAttachment DeletedAttachment DeletedIronically, the only part of the set that didn't burn was a few of the buildings of Gonzales and San Felipe -- which you saw being burned in the movie! This triangle of 18 log cabins was built about 1/2 mile from the Bexar and Alamo sets on the top of a hill. 1) The cabin on the right was the Peyton Tavern and store for exteriors and interiors during the Consultation scenes where Seguin extracts Sam Houston from the bottle. 2) This is one end of the interior. The door on the left is where Jordi Molla as Juan Seguin comes in and watches Houston. The window on the right is where Houston was sitting and drinking. The fireplace corners are seen in each angle, but never the full side of the room as in my shot. 3) This is the opposite end of this very small interior set. Kristi is standing about where the boy with the broom is standing as he watches Houston finish the drink. We didn't know all this when we were in the building however. I studied the film and discovered what this was by comparing the fireplace edge and a knot on the wall to the right of the window to those in the scenes. Clearly, I have too much time on my hands.
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Post by Riley Gardner on Dec 26, 2013 18:50:14 GMT -5
Thanks for those pictures Rich. When I was younger I'd find the set on Google Earth every few months just to see how it was progressing. Almost unbelievable that it's all gone now.
Also, does anyone know the progress of an extended/directors cut of The Alamo? I heard rumor that John Lee Hancock was negotiating having a cut of the film released as part of his payment for Saving Mr. Banks. That film is on the verge of being nominated for some good Academy Awards, right after The Blind Side won Best Actress and was nominated for Best Picture. He's also co-writing the upcoming Malificent film that's being strongly awaited. It's certainly possible Disney, with this success and certain up-and-coming success, would permit a possible cut, even if it were just limited. Honestly, what do they have to lose, especially with the kind of profit Disney has?
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