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Post by Kevin Young on Nov 7, 2010 14:41:31 GMT -5
Long Barrack vs Long Barracks: Which is correct??? Throughout the fifties, sixties, seventies and eighties, it was "the Long Barracks." Throughout the nineties to now, it is "the long barrack." A "convent" is occupied by nuns. Padres live in a "friary." Marion Habig (Order of Franciscan Monks) corrected the labeling of the building during mission times from "convent" to "friary." Long aware of this, I have called it (for mission reference) the "friary," but in later years, due to virtually ALL Alamo historians, archeologists, curator/historians and Alamo buffs referring to it ONLY as the " convento," I gave up and joined them -- with the hope that we someday find evidence that Fray Olivares kept some nuns handy as well. ;D So, this was the quick answer to your question as only I could say it! An even quicker answer is that, for what it is worth, I now refer to the building as the " convento" and/or the "long barrack." Perhaps that will become *history* for the future. Convento does mean the place where the friars live. The glossary for the California Missions notes that the term means, "the padre's residence in the mission complex" and the National Park service also uses it.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Nov 7, 2010 15:56:25 GMT -5
Hmmmmm. Well, then...... never mind the nuns. (Can a protestant get in touble with the Pope? )
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Post by sloanrodgers on Nov 7, 2010 17:01:45 GMT -5
I was under the impression that once a convent, monastery and nunnery were basically the same thing. An assembly of monks or nuns set apart from other communities. I guess a nunnery would be the only one restricted to women, bar none.
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Post by Kevin Young on Nov 7, 2010 19:14:42 GMT -5
I was under the impression that once a convent, monastery and nunnery were basically the same thing. An assembly of monks or nuns set apart from other communities. I guess a nunnery would be the only one restricted to women, bar none. I was under the same impression, but in the case of the Spanish missions, convento was where the priests lived...
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Post by alanhufffines on Nov 7, 2010 21:05:00 GMT -5
Interesting points. But to the original question:
Dr. Joseph Barnard's journal mentions walking over to the Alamo, and it's clear he doesn't mean to go to the hospital (in town?), where he's been spending all his time. So were there a few men in the Alamo hospital before Feb. 23, but with the bulk of them were in the Mexican hospital, which was probably on Military Plaza?
Give me help, oh my country!
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Post by stuart on Nov 8, 2010 8:59:52 GMT -5
I suspect that almost anyplace could have been labeled "hospital" if it held wounded soldiers. Move the cots and you move the hospital. It's not as if they had an operating room or any special services that we typically associate with hospitals today. Paul Meske Wisconsin I agree with Paul on this one and think that the question may be unduly complicated by labels. Sure there was a hospital established in 1805, but that was intended to serve the needs of a single company of presidiales, ie; a sick bay rather than a full blown hospital. The requirements of Cos' forces are going to be way above that and it would have been a lot easier to accomodate feed and care for his many sick and wounded in Bexar itself rather than truck them all the way out to the Alamo, likewise Santa Anna's wounded. The Texians are an exception but only because the Alamo, as I've argued before, was a lifeboat rather than anything else. The gunners were probably the only people actually stationed up there with everybody else far more comfortably accomodated in Bexar until that terrible morning when they all had to bug out up the hill and cram themselves into that half ruined old mission station - and that will have included the sick and injured. I'll leave those better informed as to the internal arrangements to argue over where exactly in the Alamo they went on or after 23 February but I'd be very surprised if they were up there before that date.
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Post by Kevin Young on Nov 8, 2010 10:49:09 GMT -5
Barnard's published account does suggest that the Mexican wounded were bein quartered in the town...probably due to space and that the Alamo was in repair mode...
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Post by Herb on Nov 8, 2010 11:48:56 GMT -5
I would agree that the post Alamo wounded were housed in town - the number of men wounded March 6th outnumbered the total number of the Texian garrison.
But I would emphasize the only remarks I know of the Bexar wounded is Jameson's key wrtiten in January, which says the wounded officers were housed in the Alamo. While it doesn't say the enlisted men were there, I think it highly unlikely that they were located across the river in a seperate location. If anything the officers would have more likely have been staying in the more comfortable quarters avialable in town.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Nov 8, 2010 18:11:43 GMT -5
I have never heard or read of any use being made of the old barracks on Plaza de Armas during the 1835-36 campaign. Nor have I even heard mention of active facilities being back there that late in the game. Anybody?
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Post by sloanrodgers on Nov 8, 2010 19:14:26 GMT -5
Interesting points. But to the original question: Thanks. I just thought some were getting a little hung up on synonyms for a monkey house. They're simply the long barracks to me. I also wanted to throw in my bad nun pun. Carry on.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Nov 8, 2010 23:40:02 GMT -5
Interesting points. But to the original question: Thanks. I just thought some were getting a little hung up on synonyms for a monkey house. They're simply the long barracks to me. I also wanted to throw in my bad nun pun. Carry on. Thaaaaaaaaaaanks.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Nov 8, 2010 23:43:13 GMT -5
I have never heard or read of any use being made of the old barracks on Plaza de Armas during the 1835-36 campaign. Nor have I even heard mention of active facilities being back there that late in the game. Anybody? I wonder if the back jail portion of the old "Bat Cave" courthouse in the northwest corner of Military Plaza was originally a part of the presidial barracks. In the 1860's photos of the structure from the roof of the Governors Palace, it certainly appears to be an older structure than the Bat Cave itself.
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Post by garyzaboly on Nov 9, 2010 6:03:21 GMT -5
Andrade's cavalry units occupied the Alamo compound not long after the battle, so it's reasonable to assume that they had some medical facilities on-site, as well as in town, for the duration of their two-month residence there.
The impression of the "two" Alamo siege-era hospitals I've come to draw is that the hospital said to be in the southernmost room of the northern wing of the low barracks might have been for patients with communicable diseases, as Bowie was. Sanchez-Navarro tells us, however, that Bowie was found in the room closest to the gate on the east, so either he had been given a single-bed occupancy, as was customary with an officer, or was moved there shortly before the battle.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Nov 9, 2010 9:01:34 GMT -5
Gary, wouldn't that put those with communicable diseases adjacent to the kitchen?
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Post by garyzaboly on Nov 9, 2010 14:20:54 GMT -5
Gary, wouldn't that put those with communicable diseases adjacent to the kitchen? In a proximity sense only, Allen. Sanchez-Navarro clearly shows a wall separating both rooms.
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