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Post by Hollowhorn on Apr 7, 2012 12:10:53 GMT -5
Got a reply from Glenn Effler on F/B:
"The information I used came from the book "ENCYCLPEDIA OF THE ALAMO and the TEXAS REVOLUTION" by Thom Hatch. It is the only source I've seen that identifies Wolfe's sons."
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Post by Jim Boylston on Apr 7, 2012 12:48:05 GMT -5
Got a reply from Glenn Effler on F/B: "The information I used came from the book "ENCYCLPEDIA OF THE ALAMO and the TEXAS REVOLUTION" by Thom Hatch. It is the only source I've seen that identifies Wolfe's sons." Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Hatch provided a source for this information. Tracking back a little farther, I find a mention in Long's "Duel of Eagles," on page 226, but Long doesn't list a source either.
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Post by Jim Boylston on Apr 7, 2012 13:17:31 GMT -5
An earlier source: Summer, 1986 edition of the "Texas Jewish Historical Society Newsletter" lists Anthony and his two sons, Michael and Benjamin as having been killed at the Alamo. No source.
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Post by Jim Boylston on Apr 7, 2012 16:14:56 GMT -5
I don't have a copy of Ron Jackson's, "Alamo Legacy," but apparently the boys are named in this work as well. Perhaps it has a note? Jim
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Post by Hollowhorn on Apr 7, 2012 16:17:36 GMT -5
An earlier source: Summer, 1986 edition of the "Texas Jewish Historical Society Newsletter" lists Anthony and his two sons, Michael and Benjamin as having been killed at the Alamo. No source. Was the article written by Natalie Ornish or Sara Alpern-Tarlow? 1989 seem to be the date that their book was first published. Did they perhaps leak out the information as part of a work in progress or is it from another source entirely?
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Post by Hollowhorn on Apr 7, 2012 16:21:58 GMT -5
Tracking back a little farther, I find a mention in Long's "Duel of Eagles," on page 226, but Long doesn't list a source either. Good Lord! (Sorry, Walter) I just finished reading that very book the other night and never noticed the reference.
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Post by Jim Boylston on Apr 7, 2012 16:23:47 GMT -5
An earlier source: Summer, 1986 edition of the "Texas Jewish Historical Society Newsletter" lists Anthony and his two sons, Michael and Benjamin as having been killed at the Alamo. No source. Was the article written by Natalie Ornish or Sara Alpern-Tarlow? 1989 seem to be the date that their book was first published. Did they perhaps leak out the information as part of a work in progress or is it from another source entirely? It's not really an article, just a list, but it was compiled by Ornish. From the limited view available on Amazon, Ornish's book, "Pioneer Jewish Texans," looks to be well documented. It might be worth looking into, as it seems like this might be the source of later works. Unfortunately, my library system no longer allows inter-library loans. Jim
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Post by Allen Wiener on Apr 7, 2012 17:01:01 GMT -5
Nothing on the kids names in Jackson's "Alamo Legacy." My guess is that all of these appearances of the names of the Wolf children come from a single source, but we haven't found it yet. Patience.
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Post by Jim Boylston on Apr 7, 2012 17:52:00 GMT -5
Nothing on the kids names in Jackson's "Alamo Legacy." My guess is that all of these appearances of the names of the Wolf children come from a single source, but we haven't found it yet. Patience. At this point, my money is on the Ornish book, but I'd like to know her source. Jim
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Post by Chuck T on Apr 7, 2012 18:27:06 GMT -5
Hollowhorn: I know Hatch. Used to see him once and a while, but not for a long time. He is generally good with the information he puts out.
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Post by Hollowhorn on Apr 8, 2012 12:05:30 GMT -5
I mailed Natalie Ornish & had this reply from her son:
So, unless someone here has a copy of the book..........................
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Post by Jim Boylston on Apr 8, 2012 13:04:34 GMT -5
I mailed Natalie Ornish & had this reply from her son: Hah! Got it! I was able to access page 295 on Amazon. The authors got the information from synagogue records in the London suburb of Hampstead Heath. The records state that Wolfe was: "leaving England for a place in Master A. Sterne's North American Colony called Teksis along with his two sons, Benjamin and Michael." I think that's pretty conclusive! Whew! Jim
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Post by Hollowhorn on Apr 8, 2012 15:57:49 GMT -5
Outstanding, Marine!
Well done Jim, got to be worth a few lines in the 'Journal' Get it written up!
Regarding Herndon & Sarah, would such a relationship (if there was one) be tolerated in Texas in 1836?
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Post by Allen Wiener on Apr 8, 2012 16:21:42 GMT -5
Well done, Jim! I was curious enough to order a copy of the book, which I may still do as the topic interests me anyway. But this is new info that we didn't have before and lends greater credibility to the entire Wolfe story. According to Susannah Dickinson, Wolfe was mercilessly bayoneted after pleading for his life; at least one, and perhaps both of his sons were shot down in the same room that sheltered the Esparzas and Dickinson herself, apparently taken for Texan defenders. Another story has one son being shot and Wolfe grabbing the other and making a mad dash over the rear of the church, both of them either being shot dead or killed from the fall. Some versions claim it was Almeron Dickinson and little Angelina who jumped from the wall, but we know that's not true. Ornish's footnote suggests that Dickinson leapt from a window on the east side of the Church with one of the Wolfe children, both of them being riddled with bullets. It's possible, but there was no window. My guess is still that all three Wolfes were killed together, witnessed by Susannah.
Who says there's nothing new to learn about the Alamo??
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Post by bgroneman on Jul 16, 2012 17:17:48 GMT -5
Hi. I'm new to this forum. The quote regarding the name of Wolfe's sons comes from Phil Rosenthal when we worked on Roll Call at the Alamo. The alleged synagogue records also. No one else has ever seen this evidence. I've come to believe it doesn't exist.
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