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Post by Rich Curilla on Jul 25, 2010 14:27:11 GMT -5
By Google, it would have been 1,043 yards from the north wall to the center of the Molino Blanco and 765 yards to the river bank across from it.
Yes, agreed, Travis did remarkably well given what he had, what he was confronted by and what he knew.
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Post by garyzaboly on Jul 25, 2010 15:02:15 GMT -5
If we are looking at the Molino Blanco, any sally from the north wall would have had to cross six or eight fence lines or overgrown remnants of fence lines and several acequia laterals to even reach the river bank across from the mill. Taking Filisola at his word, those fields would be choaked with spiny scrub growth and very difficult for infantry or cavalry to cross. Even the closer mill downstream had similar obstacles, if for about half the distance. There had to be an old path or two from the Alamo's northern reaches to the Sugar Mill. Even if overgrown...even if it were another "covered road"...it might have been still navigable for men on foot. I'm still trying to get "Sally at the Sugar Mill" out of my head. It reminds me so much of a typical Playboy spread of the late '50s or early '60s.
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Post by Chuck T on Jul 25, 2010 15:04:20 GMT -5
The Garza mill was a shorter distance but the terrain would have the same type of obstructions.
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Post by Chuck T on Jul 25, 2010 15:07:00 GMT -5
You will have to admit it does sound better than - Madam Candelaria at the Sugar Mill
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Post by garyzaboly on Jul 25, 2010 15:13:28 GMT -5
You will have to admit it does sound better than - Madam Candelaria at the Sugar Mill Oh man, there goes my appetite LOL...although who knows, she might have been quite a looker in 1836! Especially after two bottles of mescal.
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Post by Chuck T on Jul 25, 2010 15:15:45 GMT -5
Maybe two cases of mescal.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jul 25, 2010 17:29:15 GMT -5
I wonder if there would have been any jacales out there. I've just always assumed they were ONLY labores. Didn't Lord or Tinkle say they went out for wood? Maybe they were right. Maybe that's why Madam Candelaria said she was in the Alamo. Maybe she was really in a jacal down by the river and there was a well beaten path in between. I prefer to think of Flaca at the Sugar Mill myself.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jul 25, 2010 17:32:11 GMT -5
The Garza mill was a shorter distance but the terrain would have the same type of obstructions. But did the Garza Mill have a haystack?
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Post by elcolorado on Jul 30, 2011 10:14:56 GMT -5
When we think of the late night sally to the sugar mill, we assume it was Molino Blanco, several hundred yards to the northwest. But what if Almonte was referring to a different mill?
When the Mexicans tried to cut off the Alamo's supply of water, Almonte wrote: "It was determined to cut off the water from the enemy on the side next to the old mill."
The only place to tamper with the fort's water supply would have been somewhere along Acequia de Alamo, possibly at the confluence of Acequia de Alamo and Acequia Madre. This was also the area where the north battery was placed.
So what I'm asking is this: Could it be that the sally was directed at the north battery and nearby entrenchments? It certainly was a lot closer then Molino Blanco, which made it an easier target.
The idea that the Texians would sprint 700-800 yards to engage a position (on the other side of the river) in a feint or otherwise sounds foolish. The risk of being overtaken and overwhelmed by cavalry so far from the Alamo makes Molino Blanco an unlikely choice - imo.
~Glenn
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Post by Herb on Jul 30, 2011 19:06:49 GMT -5
Glenn, your idea makes a lot of sense. Takes thinking on.
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Post by Hollowhorn on Jan 10, 2012 14:47:43 GMT -5
How had the situation on 3 March changed from the preceeding days of the siege? Watching the Web Based Alamo Map again today, it struck me that one thing had changed, Bonhan had arrived, I wonder if he passed on information that would have precipitated a sally at that particular time?
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jan 10, 2012 19:47:33 GMT -5
It is certainly an intriguing mystery regarding what Bonham might have brought to them. Obviously, word that nearly 700 reinforcements were on the way. Probably not that Fannin had turned back and wasn't coming. Possibly that some of the reinforcements were already on the Cibolo ready to come it. Would anything he could have said have possibly inspired defenders to have left the fort during the battle because of who might be only several miles east to link up with??? Boy, does it "take thinkin' on."
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jan 11, 2012 18:43:35 GMT -5
When we think of the late night sally to the sugar mill, we assume it was Molino Blanco, several hundred yards to the northwest. But what if Almonte was referring to a different mill? When the Mexicans tried to cut off the Alamo's supply of water, Almonte wrote: "It was determined to cut off the water from the enemy on the side next to the old mill." The only place to tamper with the fort's water supply would have been somewhere along Acequia de Alamo, possibly at the confluence of Acequia de Alamo and Acequia Madre. This was also the area where the north battery was placed. So what I'm asking is this: Could it be that the sally was directed at the north battery and nearby entrenchments? It certainly was a lot closer then Molino Blanco, which made it an easier target. The idea that the Texians would sprint 700-800 yards to engage a position (on the other side of the river) in a feint or otherwise sounds foolish. The risk of being overtaken and overwhelmed by cavalry so far from the Alamo makes Molino Blanco an unlikely choice - imo. ~Glenn The Molino Blanco is the "Old Mill" -- in actuality, the Zambrano Mill. The only other mill in the valley around Bexar was the Garza Mill. Both, I believe, were sugar mills and both were on the right bank of the river (opposite side from the Alamo). I think Almonte's statement "next to the old mill" falls into the category of generalization. "Next to" simply means as opposed to on the other side of the Alamo toward La Villita or toward the powder house. Thus, when there is a confusion as with the acequia, I think we can be assured that this is the case. As you point out, the only place to cut off the acequia was on the acequia. Sharing your feeling that the Zambrano Mill was waaaay too far away for a night sally, I am now more inclined to believe that the mill in question was the Garza Mill, perhaps to go after wood or water. I highly doubt the Texians would try to attack the north battery. Then again, what a thought! Where's the mud? LOL.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jan 11, 2012 18:47:07 GMT -5
Besides, they didn't want to disturb Gary and Sally. ;D
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