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Post by cantador4u on Nov 18, 2009 16:23:08 GMT -5
I have a real good memory, it's just short. And for that reason I can't remember where I read, or think I read, that one reason the defenders of the Alamo may have been considering surrender is that they were running out of food. Including non-combatants, there were about 200 mouths to feed at the end I think.
In the defunct Alamo Movie forum there was a thread about typical food in Texas at the time. Lots of pork and corn mainly, beef being too valuable to routinely slaughter for food. They required 4,500 calories/day compared with 3,000/day today.
So when the Mexican Army dropped in for a visit the defenders chased 20-30 head of cattle into the Alamo, and scavenged a large amount (how much??) of corn from nearby jacales before closing the gates behind them. There may have been some food brought from town for a day of so after, but mostly for individual defenders, not to augment the total supply.
Twenty to thirty beef seems like a lot of meat to me, but I'm thinking like a Midwest 21st century guy who grew up (questionable) on a dairy farm. I'm thinking that the cattle the defenders had were not the large-muscled, well fed, well marbled beef cattle of today. How heavy would an average 1836 Bexar bovine weigh dressed out? 200 lbs? 400 lbs? 600? 800?
And the corn, I picture it still on the cob, but maybe not. But if it were, 30 bushels (Where did that number come from?) of cob corn isn't the same as 30 bushels of kernel corn.
Over a 24 hour period a person would need how much to eat of beef and corn? Two to three lbs of beef and a cup of ground corn?
There would have been nothing for the cattle to eat so they were probably pretty noisy, voicing their displeasure at starving, and getting thinner than they already were.
Is there any documentation about this aspect of the siege? Relying on my previously mentioned grate (sic) memory, I don't recall anything in Hanson.
I wonder what they did with the entrails after butchering. I've thought that they should have spread them all around in front of the the north wall along with punji stakes, trip-wires, cactus, and other booby traps. Simple survival probably got in the way once they were trapped in the compound.
Paul Meske, Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
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Post by Herb on Nov 18, 2009 17:17:13 GMT -5
Here's some partial answers and some speculation.
The standard military ration at the time generally called for a pound of meat (pork or beef) and usually a pint of peas/beans and a bread ration per day.
When slaughtering beef, roughly half the weight ends up as meat. A typical modern day calf weighs 400 - 500 pounds at six months. Granted the Alamo animals probably weighed significantly less then their modern day relatives, but they were also adult animals and not the calves I mentioned, so one butchered animal probably provided enough meat to meet the daily beef ration needed for the garrison and its dependents. Meat should not have been short supply. (Water and feed for the cattle and the few horses is another matter altogether).
The corn, I imagine, was probably ground to provide a bread ration for the garrison. In the South and the west at the time cornbread was a staple (white bread was consider a luxery) and obviously the Tejanos knew corn tortillas.
I don't know what other staples (peas/beans) etc were available, but doubtlessly there were some. There was surely a lack of variety - and long term health issues (eg scurvy) . But, short term, I don't think there any serious issues for the limited period os the siege. Caring for the animals would be awhole other issue.
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Post by TRK on Nov 18, 2009 17:45:20 GMT -5
I doubt that the Tejanos in the garrison would have been without dried chiles in addition to beef and tortillas.
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Post by cantador4u on Nov 18, 2009 23:54:40 GMT -5
We know there was a kitchen, but who was in it? I suspect the women did the cooking, but eventually most of them left taking advantage of Santa Anna's offer of clemency for Mexican citizens. So which women were there until the end?
I picked up a copy of Women and Children of the Alamo, autographed by the author, Crystal Sasse Ragsdale. Her list of adult women include
1. Concepción Charli Gotari Losoya,
2. Juana Alsbury,
3. Anna Salazar de Esparza,
4. Madam Candalaria (if she really was there), and
5. Susanna Dickinson.
6. She failed to mention the unidentified Black woman who was killed during the final battle.
That doesn't seem like enough hands to grind the corn for tortillas and cornbread for 200 people, while also taking care of the sick (at least Bowie), wounded, injured, and the children.
How about the heat needed for cooking? A person can cut meat into pieces and hold them over a fire with a stick to cook it, sort of like an early hot dog. Tortillas are cooked on a hot grill, but corn bread is baked. If they had beans then they usually need to cook for a couple of hours in a pot. How much wood (or even buffalo chips) did they NEED not just for cooking, but for keeping warm also? How much did they HAVE? I suspect not enough even with scavenging anything burnable, eg furniture, ceiling beams, abatis, etc.
Paul Meske, Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
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Post by stuart on Nov 19, 2009 1:54:03 GMT -5
All we can do with the Alamo is speculate, but while Grant is routinely accused of cleaning out the stores at Bexar he and his men were deperately short of both flour and coffee by the time they reached Goliad just a few days later. He did pick some up but Dimitt didn't have much to start with and while Fannin and his men were there they complained of an unrelieved diet of fresh killed beef.
I'm not at all sure about how much food was in the Alamo apart from those 30 cattle as most of what was available was stored in Bexar - remember the Alamo was never pre-stocked for a siege which nobody anticipated. Beef - possibly with a proportion of it jerked - may therefore have been the major element of the diet, with the corn cooked as dodgers or hoe-cakes by the Americans rather than baked - as Grant's men must have done.
Not mentioned in the thread thus far is the heavily sweetened coffee which Grant and his men were addicted to.
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Post by Herb on Nov 19, 2009 11:00:19 GMT -5
We know there was a kitchen, but who was in it? I imagine that this wasn't exactly a female intensive operation, instead it was probably manned predominantly by slaves augmented with details from the garrison - especially to do the butchering, provide the firewood, etc. They probably only truly prepared one meal a day, which was then issued to the defenders (probably as seperate "messes/squads"). The defenders themselves were then probably responsible for dividing and preparing the day's ration as they saw fit. Back when I commanded a seperate company I was authorized seven cooks (never had more than five) to feed a company that would have numbered over 200 in the field. I expect that a similar number would have probably been required at the Alamo. I think this is probably the major issue. The skirmishing early in the siege on the East Side, seems to have been predomiantly over acquiring firewood and water. Stuart's point about corn-dodgers or hoe-cakes is probably right on - I just couldn't think of the names last night. |
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Post by mustanggray on Nov 19, 2009 12:55:46 GMT -5
I agree that portions of the beef, maybe large portions, could have been jerked for easier storage and keeping. The issue with eating beef during this period wasn't so much one of cost, but of storage of the excess that wasn't eaten at the time of butchering. Also remember the US Army would boil beef and issue that to the men, boiled beef keeps well, but for exactly how long I don't know, but there it is for what it's worth!
Regarding the corn, I would be willing to bet it was shelled and 80-90 bushels of shelled corn should go a long, LONG way! When we have done immersive Alamo living history events, corn and beef was THE menu.
For Fannin's command the issue of beef was altogether different, it seems aside form some rice and a few potatoes all they had was beef... I'd get tired of eating beef everyday too if I were in their shoes!
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Post by cantador4u on Nov 19, 2009 16:11:02 GMT -5
Stuart,
I just assumed they had run out of coffee and sugar real early if they had any to begin with. Maybe that is the REAL reason they slept soundly the night of the final battle, they had run out of coffee to stay awake!
I hadn't thought about jerked beef, but even that requires some wood for smoking it, as well as salt, (and teriyaki sauce?) but it would have preserved the meat and had fewer head of cattle to feed or listen to.
Wolfpack,
How many slaves were in the Alamo? I can think of only two, Joe and Ben(?). I get the impression that Joe was more of a personal servant to Travis, and this would not have exempted him from KP duty but his accounts don't give me the impression that he was given such duty.
In the early part of the siege there were more noncombatants in the Alamo and I suspect that they may have WANTED to do SOMETHING rather than sit and worry.
The single meal per day issued as you described sounds reasonable under such circumstances.
Back in the day when you were CO how much food was normally issued to your company? They probably didn't have to knock down a steer and butcher it unless they were in the field and "found" some mobile protein source like that.
Scott,
Boiled beef may keep a long time, but beef on the hoof keeps even better. ;-)
You mentioned that 80 - 90 bushels of kernel corn would go a long way, and I agree, but do we know how much corn they had? I threw out the number of 30 bushels of corn but that number is just fabrication on my part, however 80 - 90 bushels sounds awfully high to me.
Paul Meske, Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
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Post by Kevin Young on Nov 19, 2009 17:44:44 GMT -5
Travis letter 24 Feb 1836
When the enemy appeared in sight
we had not three bushels of corn --
We have since found in deserted
houses 80 or 90 bushels & got into
the walls 20 or 30 head of Beeves --
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Post by tmdreb on Nov 19, 2009 22:23:18 GMT -5
Baking cornbread on a fire is actually quite easy, and one or two men with enough pans can crank out an amazing quantity in a short time.
Corn mush can also be placed on boards or rocks and pushed up close to a fire to make a sort of biscuit.
For under 300 people total, all the Alamo really needed were about maybe 3-4 men (or women) who knew how to cook, and a few assistants.
Even half a pound of beef per man per day isn't anywhere near starving. Just imagine eating two Quarter Pounders a day!
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Post by mustanggray on Nov 20, 2009 9:47:26 GMT -5
Mr. Meske,
Kevin covered me but I got the 80-90 bushels straight from the horses mouth so to speak, in that Travis himself gave us those numbers. Regarding jerking meat, all you need is a good low heat, smokey fire and it can even be done in the sun... salt isn't necessary so far as I know. And Phil is spot on about the cooking... it's not such a monumental task when you've seen it done before and realize how easy it can be!
SMc
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Post by marklemon on Nov 20, 2009 11:34:08 GMT -5
If the defenders had a "Dutch" oven, then beans and cornbread could have been prepared in that. I once cooked out with a group of hard-core Civil War reenactors ("thread-counters"), using a Dutch Oven, and they cooked a "mess" of beans in the oven, poured the cornbread batter on top of the beans, closed the lid, and piled coals on top. Baked beans and cornbread at the same time. Good eatin'....
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Post by Herb on Nov 20, 2009 13:15:20 GMT -5
Wolfpack, How many slaves were in the Alamo? I can think of only two, Joe and Ben(?). I get the impression that Joe was more of a personal servant to Travis, and this would not have exempted him from KP duty but his accounts don't give me the impression that he was given such duty. Back in the day when you were CO how much food was normally issued to your company? They probably didn't have to knock down a steer and butcher it unless they were in the field and "found" some mobile protein source like that. Paul Meske, Sun Prairie, Wisconsin I can't recall all the sources off the top of my head, but besides Joe, there was a woman that I believe Joe said, he saw her body lying besides a cannon, There's an account of a slave woman named Betty(?) that worked in the kitchen and survived and a male that was also found there that survived by grabbing a Mexican officer and using him as a shield until the officer ordered his men to leave him alone. Pure speculation, but I imagine there were probably a handful more. I agree with you about Joe's probable role. As far as food in the modern army, the army has done this so long, that they have daily menus, and its mainly a process of providing an accurate headcount (pretty difficult with task organizations sometimes changing daily) and specifying the types of food to be provided. Quantities of food are basically determined by mutiplying the headcount x the menu. The army had 4 primary types of rations, when I retired: A rations, fresh food. B Rations, preserved food (think powdered eggs). C Rations, MREs. and T Rations, (think tv meals, but for 20 people) that are heated primarily by hot water. In tactical situations, the army generally tries to provide one hot meal a day, the other two being MREs. Depending on the situation the cooks operate usually in what is called a Brigade or Regimental Support Area some 30 KMs behind the lines or in situations like Iraq/Afghanistan out of base camps. The unit supply truck then carries the hot chow in mermite cans (think comparmentalized thermos containers) to the troops. Remote locations might receive theirs by helicopter. |
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Post by Herb on Jan 8, 2010 19:12:43 GMT -5
This discussion led me to do some more digging, and there's two sources, that lead me to believe that the Alamo wasn't in too bad of shape when it came to food.
Jameson on January 17th, the day Bowie left Goliad for Bexar, wrote Houston (Hanson, p570) that the Alamo had just received 42 Head of Cattle, and 100 bushels of meal, "which will last us for two months to come...."
Bowie's more famous "die in these ditches" letter of February 2d to Gov Smith (Hanson, p 19) says that "We are labouring night and day, laying up provisions for a siege...."
The remains of these provisions, plus what was brought into the Alamo on the first day of the siege, should have been sufficient to sustain the garrison through the end of March.
On another topic, we discussed how the garrison would have taken care of the cattle during the siege, the water and fodder needed discussed in that topic, would not have changed too significantly. The fact that they had been caring for animals since January 17, and had been preparing for a siege, it would seem a safe assumption that steps had been taken for watering and feeding the animals prior to February 23rd.
While prior to the siege the animals were probably watered in the acequia behind the corrals, once the siege began in earnest perhaps this extra demand was what caused Travis to have a second well dug.
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Post by michael on Sept 21, 2014 21:04:25 GMT -5
Firewood and water probably were not a problem, a garrison would have stocked up on supplies of both. Plus, there was one water well inside and a stream nearby if I remember the drawings of the Alamo I've seen. I found a list of supplies on the old Alamo Forum website, it listed the following in February, 1836,----250 pounds of salt pork and beef, 140 lbs. of flour, 4,450 lbs of coffee, 4,500 lbs of sugar, 10 sacks of salt (probably very large for preserving), 1 barrel of pepper, 10 barrels of vinegar. Add to that beans, corn, spices, ect. All and all, with the supply of food, water, arms and ammunition they had if the Mexicans had failed to take the fort that day, the Alamo could have held out for at least several more days.
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