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Post by Rich Curilla on Sept 7, 2007 14:57:25 GMT -5
ALAMO ARTILLERY EARLIER THAN THOUGHT?
While scanning Papers of the Texas Revolution by John H. Jenkins, I came across this comment and thought it might be significant regarding the Alamo's 21 cannon (as of March 6, 1836). Correct me if this is wrong, but haven't we always assumed that the artillery arrived, for the most part, with Gen. Cos?
This was in a letter written to Capt. Wyley Martin at San Felipe de Austin by Edward Gritten at Bexar, on September 18, 1835.
......"A vessel (the Veracrusano) has arrived at Copano with artilary and warlike stores. Since my last, no more troops are come in, although it is reported they are on their way. Cos is expected by the 22d instant. The Celebration of the 16th took place here with considerable shone; and the only two pieces of cannon serviceable were called out for the occasion, the other pieces, (say 18) being in want of carriages.".......[italics mine]
[Papers of the Texas Revolution, Jenkins, Vol. 1, p. 458]
This suggests two things to me relative to the Alamo artillery. First, and most important, at least 20 tubes were already at Bexar prior to General Cos' arrival. Second, only two of them were mounted, thus suggesting that Cos either brought carriages with him or had his men build them. Or Neill and Jameson did some. By Sanchez-Navarro's plat, we know that three tubes were still unmounted at the time of the battle.
So what would we have seen at the siege? Two old and original gun carriages (either fieldpiece or fortification carriage) and the rest brand spanking new? Perhaps even makeshift? What do you folks think?
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Post by stuart on Sept 7, 2007 15:27:41 GMT -5
Your italics didn't work, but apart from that its intriguing. First of all Gritten clearly implies there were a number of guns in Bexar but only two of them serviceable, which brings us back to that list of munitions turned over when Cos surrendered:
Inventory of Military Stores delivered in conformity with the Capitulation entered into on the 11th of December, 1835, between General Martin Perfecto de Cos of the Permanent Troops, and General Edward Burleson, of the Colonial Troops of Texas.
IN BEXAR
30 useless muskets, 5 boxes ammunition, 4 drums, 4 boxes with 66 hats and 49 blankets of the company of Lancers, 1 bale with 12 dozen blankets, 1 four-pound cannon, mounted, 1 chinesco, 2 trumpets, 2 clarions, 1 large clarion, 2 cymbals.
IN THE ALAMO
2 four-pound cannon, mounted, 1 small brass do., 1 four-pound field-piece, 1 do. three-pounder, complete, l rammer, 1 cannon, four pounder, with carriage and rammer,1 iron culverine of nine-inch calibre, mounted, 1 howitzer of five-inch calibre, 1 cannon, six pounder, 1 field-piece, four-pounder, 1 cannon, three-pounder, mounted, 1 ditto six-pounder, mounted, 257 carabines and muskets.
IN THE ARSENAL
11,000 musket cartridges, 2 cartouch boxes, 10 bags grape shot, 9 do. with cartridges, 18 swivel worms, 8 howitzer do., 100 small cannon cartridges, 18 packages musket cartridges, 10 port-fires, 16 swivel worms, 40 swivel cartridges, 1 bag containing 100 pounds of powder, 50 packages cartridges, 16 do. do., 1 box cartridges, damp, 1 box musket cartridges, 1 box powder, 1200 musket cartridges, 1 ammunition box with 20 cannon balls, 10 quick matches, 1 box howitzer worms, 3 boxes musket cartridges, 2 ammunition boxes with 40 cannon balls, 1 match cord, 1 box howitzer worms, 1 box cartridges, 2 do. do., 7 empty ammunition chests, 17 muskets, 1 bugle, 2 boxes ammunition, 1 rammer, 1 lanthorn, 4 large cannon, 2 swivels, 1 four-pound cannon, mounted, 1 box (26 stands) of grape, 1 box musket cartridges, 1 bag of powder, 1 bag of gun flints, 1 drum, 15 carabines, out of order, 11 packages cannon ball, 1 piece small ordnance.
DELIVERED BY MANCHACA
67 muskets, 15 coats, 9 gunlocks, 49 duck jackets, 1 bunch of wire, 3 bars of steel, 1 small do. of iron, 1 bunch flax thread, 15 skeins sewing silk, 63 duck jackets, 2 barrels containing 166 bayonets, 9 aparejos, 58 lances, 1 pair scales with weights, 1 piece of linsey, 50 muskets with bayonets, 13 lances.
Now summarising the above we have a total of 12 cannon of various calibres, of which 6 are described as mounted, one has a carriage, which presumably meant it had a carriage but wasn’t actually mounted on it, and three were described as field pieces. Taking this literally I suggest this gives us 5 or 6 guns mounted on truck carriages, including the culverine which must be the gunnade, and just three field pieces with spoked wheels. That leaves a howitzer, which actually seems to have been a mortar, and a six pounder which is conspicuously not described as either being mounted of a field piece.
To get the accepted figure of 20 guns in the Alamo we need to deduct three guns of unspecified calibre sent down to Goliad and two taken by Grant, including that mortar or howitzer, and then add those employed by the Texians in the siege of Bexar plus the 18 pounder. Just how many did they have?
Subject to clarification on that point it certainly sounds as though there were more than one or two tubes left there by older armies which were already so useless as not to be included in the inventory. Its noticeable for a start that the two Long Nines out at La Villita are not included in the inventory. Were they Texian guns or were they already old and useless?
A final point which occurs to me is that although Jameson mounted all the guns he could find, a lot of his bristling may have been bluff.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Sept 7, 2007 22:28:40 GMT -5
Your italics didn't work... They didn't at first -- and I couldn't get the program to print the number 18 in parentheses. It kept giving me a 1 and a Happy Face! So... this is quite confusing. Basically, I would trust the compilation of information (as you have done it, and Tom before) from the inventory with the necessary guns added and subtracted more than I would trust a civilians casual reference to a Dies y Seis de Septiembre Fandango. I guess we just throw Gritten's comment into the pile of details on the artillery and hope it makes sense further down the road. The "takes thinkin' on" department. |
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Post by Herb on Sept 8, 2007 10:30:26 GMT -5
Well, I'll chip in with the obvious, to the Texian cannon brought to Bexar, we need to add the field piece captured at Concepcion. It somehow seems to get overlooked/omitted and it also needs to be subtracted that from the September total cited above.
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Post by sloanrodgers on Sept 9, 2007 1:40:39 GMT -5
Well, I'll chip in with the obvious, to the Texian cannon brought to Bexar, we need to add the field piece captured at Concepcion. It somehow seems to get overlooked/omitted and it also needs to be subtracted that from the September total cited above. I don't know much about cannon as the biggest thing I ever fired was a 50 cal. at Fort Sill. I do think rlcgtt should be commended for bringing up this interesting query if it hasn't been done before. I never really thought of the Alamo as having substantial artillery before the Texas Revolution, but it makes sense with the previous conflicts. The Concepcion piece is overlooked by some, but I believe I've found an even more obscure cannon. At some point prior to Jan. 24, 1836, a Major Grayson passed through Gonzales (I assume headed toward Bexar) with a 12 pounder cannon. While stopped at the blacksmith shop of Lewis Sowell and Ira Dement, the big cannon had some repair work done according to a statement of our friend Edward Gritten. I've included the RC link below, but does anyone know what became of this bad boy?  Republic Claim 25-388 tslarc.tsl.state.tx.us/repclaims/25/02500388.pdf |
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