cje
Full Member
Posts: 60
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Post by cje on Apr 29, 2012 19:51:22 GMT -5
I have asked this before but do not recall getting an answer. Did Sam Houston ever visit the Alamo at any time after the battle of the Alamo?
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Post by loucapitano on Apr 30, 2012 9:26:24 GMT -5
I would think as President of Texas, he would have visited San Antonio and the Alamo ruins as part of his governmental responsibilities.
The question, did he ever visit San Antonio or the Alamo prior to the Mexican occupation in 1835/36, would be worth knowing. As a military leader he did not favor "static defenses" and commented on the danger of being "forted-up." I wonder if this view came from observing the Alamo and/or Goliad fortifications?
Anybody want to comment?
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Post by Paul Sylvain on Apr 30, 2012 18:33:24 GMT -5
It's hard to imagine that Houston never ventured to Bexar and walked the Alamo's grounds at some point after San Jacinto and Texas won its independence. Who knows -- there might be some old, forgotten newspaper stories about him visiting it as president.
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Post by sloanrodgers on Apr 30, 2012 19:20:51 GMT -5
Houston wasn't a fan of the Alamo before the siege and as I recall it was used as a political weapon against him after he was elected president. I believe he visited the Alamo once or twice to pay his respects, which might be documented in Haley's biography or elsewhere.
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Post by Allen Wiener on Apr 30, 2012 20:07:48 GMT -5
Couldn't find it in Haley; maybe "The Raven"?
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Post by Hiram on May 2, 2012 12:01:50 GMT -5
I can't find my notes on it at the moment, but I did determine that he paid his respects at the Alamo during a senatorial campaign. If memory serves me correct, it was around 1850. I'll see if I can scrounge up those notes when time permits.
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Post by Hiram on May 2, 2012 13:47:11 GMT -5
Okay, so my memory is only fair to middlin'. In notes compiled for some proxy research on a Houston presentation sword, there is an itinerary that was published in several Texas newspapers in the summer of 1857. It lists Houston as being scheduled to visit San Antonio on Tuesday 28 July. This was part of his campaign for governor, not one of his senatorial campaigns.
Of course the assumption is that he would have visited the Alamo while in San Antonio, I'm not sure that would in fact have been the case. Researching The Texas Sentinel (Austin) and The Daily Express (San Antonio) might shed some light as to the location of Houston's speech in San Antonio.
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Post by TRK on May 2, 2012 15:34:11 GMT -5
Hiram, as I informed the original poster, cje, some 14 years ago on the Alamo de Parras discussion forum (and subsequently on the old Alamo Film forum, and again on Alamo Sentry Forum), I have a recollection that photographer Sue Flanagan's book, Sam Houston's Texas, refers to Houston's visit to San Antonio on July 28, 1857, during a campaign swing. Further, I believe Flanagan cited a reference that this was Houston's first visit ever to the city. I even went out on a limb and said that I am pretty sure that Flanagan's book had mention of the "Hero of San Jacinto" giving a campaign speech in front of the 'Mo, but I could be mistaken...and if I am, I'll gladly sit in the corner for five minutes. ;D I used to have a copy of Flanagan's book but gave it away years ago. Maybe somebody can access it and prove or disprove that that my memory's any good. p.s., I spent way too many hours this week grinding through the newspapers in the Portal to Texas History trying to locate a report of Houston's July 28, 1857, visit to Bexar, with zero success. The only S.A. newspaper available for that time frame was the San Antonio Ledger, an anti-Houston sheet. I checked other Texas papers after July 28, 1857, and all I found that was germane was a mention of Houston's visit to San Antonio in the Austin State Gazette of August 8, 1857, quoting the Ledger. (Of course, the issue of the Ledger the Gazette was quoting does not exist in the Portal to Texas History.) @ cje, don't ever say I never did anything for you  |
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Post by Hiram on May 2, 2012 17:11:03 GMT -5
Tom,
Thanks for the post. I didn't realize the subject matter had been covered not once, or twice, but thrice. After I read your post, I stepped over to the DRT Library and took a quick glance at Flanagan's book.
I didn't spot the reference on Houston making a speech in front of the Alamo, but I was skimming so I may well have overlooked it. I trust your memory so I will look again tomorrow (schedule permitting.)
In addition to the Ledger, the Herald was being published in San Antonio during the time in question. I have a list of newspapers on file at the DRT library, of course that list is at home, but if the Herald is on file I'll check it out as well.
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Post by sloanrodgers on May 2, 2012 19:40:15 GMT -5
Couldn't find it in Haley; maybe "The Raven"? Sorry, I cannot remember the exact book, but it's out there somewhere, maybe Tom's Flanagan source. I've read about Houston's 1857 gubernatorial campaign stops to all the major towns across Texas several times in different articles. It stands to reason that he would speak in front of the key landmark in each place. Of course Houston's powerbase was mostly East Texas, so in some western locales it was like jumping into a cactus patch with all the anti-Houston derision in that election. After Houston's visit to Waco, one newspaper said that the general's supporters were a "pack of curs, bloodhounds, hyenas, fellow felons, blackguards, murderers, forgers, bank robbers, jeremy diddlers, montebanks, paupers and criminals." An unnamed Mier Prisoner threated to kill him if Houston came to his town. How many present politicians would visit a place where they were thus threatened without special protection? I'm sure you can imagine why Houston probably wouldn't have felt welcome in San Antonio after the fall of the Alamo and possibly why this question keeps appearing in various forums after it's been answered before. The August 1, 1857 Texas State Gazette implies that Houston spoke before a crowd in Alamo Plaza at some point shortly before publication of this Austin newspaper. As I recall someone told me that later on that evening or on a different occasion Houston visited the Alamo. He supposedly wanted a private moment away from prying eyes and wicked tongues, but I wish I had a source. |
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Post by estebans on May 2, 2012 23:23:27 GMT -5
It's interesting that the readily accessible August 8, 1857 issue of the Austin State Gazette at texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth81306/m1/4/zoom/?q=Houston seems to place Houston's afternoon speech in front of the "Plaza House," while Judge Oldham's speech in response that evening is placed on "Alamo Plaza." Perhaps someone who knows where that Plaza House was can tell us if that means a politically significant opposition of Military Plaza to Alamo Plaza, or not. I should think the answer to the original question lies therein, but I don't know what hotels were on Military Plaza at that point. Edit: Oops, that's Plaza House, not Hotel. Stephen Schneider |
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Post by TRK on May 3, 2012 7:03:12 GMT -5
Perhaps someone who knows where that Plaza House was can tell us if that means a politically significant opposition of Military Plaza to Alamo Plaza, or not. The Plaza House was on the north side of Main Plaza at the center of the block. |
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Post by Hiram on May 3, 2012 10:17:12 GMT -5
The Plaza House, built by William Elliott in 1847, was also the site of General Twiggs' capitulation in February 1860 to the Committee for Public Service, led by Ben McCullough. It was also the primary stagecoach stop for travelers to and from San Antonio. The Plaza House was replaced by the White Elephant Saloon and Gambling House in the early 1880s. Adjacent to the White Elephant was Hart's Cigar Store and above it sat the Vaudeville Theatre (and we all know what happened there!)
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Post by Hiram on May 3, 2012 10:29:10 GMT -5
Perhaps someone who knows where that Plaza House was can tell us if that means a politically significant opposition of Military Plaza to Alamo Plaza, or not. |
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Post by Hollowhorn on May 3, 2012 14:02:42 GMT -5
[the Vaudeville Theatre (and we all know what happened there!) [/font][/quote] Bah! Once again, I'll bite! What happened there?  |
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