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Post by Bill Yowell on Jul 12, 2011 17:44:45 GMT -5
We know that Bonham returned to the Alamo to fight and die, and we know that Sequin fought at San Jacinto. What became of the other couriers who left the Alamo to try to secure reinforcements? Do we know that they all made a safe exit from the Alamo and safely reached their destinations, and do we know all of their names? If these questions have been discussed by other previous posts please direct me to them. IMO, Bonham should be placed on the same tier of respect and honor as Travis, Bowie, and Crockett, as his return to a lost cause speaks volumes about his character and sacrifice.
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Post by Blacksmith John on Jul 12, 2011 20:56:46 GMT -5
I've always wondered about the youngest one--wasn't his last name Allen? I do not believe he was ever interviewed--a real shame.
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Post by stuart on Jul 13, 2011 0:54:12 GMT -5
There are real problems with Allen:
In short there is no certainty that Allen was ever in the Alamo, let alone its last messenger. Harbert Davenport certainly questioned the rather flimsy evidence and while Amelia Williams eventually included him in her list of “verified” couriers, notwithstanding the strong objection of “Mr D_______”, there is another point to consider.
If Allen was indeed the last messenger from the Alamo, we are faced with the curious matter of the dog that barked in the night, or rather of course if you know your Sherlock Holmes, a dog which might be expected to have barked but didn’t. In this case, what happened to Allen’s dispatches? It is inconceivable that Travis, an inveterate scribbler, would send Allen out without at least one letter whether it was a last appeal for help, or cry of defiance. And if the garrison had given themselves up for dead, surely at least some of them would also have taken the opportunity to send last letters and testaments. Yet instead of what would surely have been the most important historical documents to come out of the Alamo we have absolutely nothing and not even a hint that there might once have been something.
Moreover, at no time during a long and respectable life did Judge Allen, as he became, ever tell his story in public or in a newspaper interview, or leave a testamentary memoir. Nor so far as I'm aware did he ever lodge a claim for the bounty or donation land which he would surely have been entitled to as an Alamo defender.
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Post by ronald on Jul 13, 2011 10:24:13 GMT -5
So he may not have been there that would explain why someone who did not die until after 1900 left nothing. A few years ago I read that he was covering up a mutiny and did not talk about it.
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Post by Kevin Young on Jul 13, 2011 11:30:31 GMT -5
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Post by mjbrathwaite on Jul 17, 2011 17:59:35 GMT -5
So he may not have been there that would explain why someone who did not die until after 1900 left nothing. A few years ago I read that he was covering up a mutiny and did not talk about it. I presume this is the same mutiny Santa Anna supposedly reported in the document that appeared in "Men's Illustrated". As I'm not aware of any corroborating evidence, I am inclined to agree with Bill Groneman that it is bogus, but I'm curious about where you heard about Allen covering one up. |
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Post by sloanrodgers on Jul 17, 2011 19:39:06 GMT -5
Youry right. What an Alamo charlaton. |
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Post by Herb on Jul 17, 2011 19:42:01 GMT -5
If Allen was indeed the last messenger from the Alamo, we are faced with the curious matter of the dog that barked in the night, or rather of course if you know your Sherlock Holmes, a dog which might be expected to have barked but didn’t. In this case, what happened to Allen’s dispatches? It is inconceivable that Travis, an inveterate scribbler, would send Allen out without at least one letter whether it was a last appeal for help, or cry of defiance. And if the garrison had given themselves up for dead, surely at least some of them would also have taken the opportunity to send last letters and testaments. Yet instead of what would surely have been the most important historical documents to come out of the Alamo we have absolutely nothing and not even a hint that there might once have been something. Whether Allen was there or not I'll let others argue. But, I don't think the above is a determing factor. Burr Duval's letter dtd March 9th, from Goliad, (Hansen p. 607) stated that an express arrived "yesterday" (the 8th) from San Antonio. A mounted courier from San Antonio would not take more than 2 days to reach Goliad - so the timing is certainly correct for a courier leaving San Antonio the night of the 5th-6th. Given what was going on at Goliad and Gonzales "lost" correspondence is to be expected. For a claims expert, aren't there more than a couple of applications that originally referred to correspondence from some of the defenders during the siege? |
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Post by Herb on Jul 17, 2011 19:55:32 GMT -5
Nothing against Bonham, but he wasn't the only defender to return to the Alamo - and he probably did not leave as a courier - unless it was before the Mexicans arrived.
There are apparently a couple of men who were part of the garrison (Cummings for one) who were absent from Bexar when the Mexicans arrived, and apparently returned as part of the Gonzales 32.
More importantly Albert Martin and John W. Smith, two genuine couriers who departed the Alamo (Smith the 23rd, Martin the 24th) after the Mexicans arrived, led the 32 into the Alamo.
Smith, to me is the real hero of the couriers, for he carried a second message out of the Alamo (Travis letter of March 3rd) the night the Mexican Army recevieved it's reinforcements and the fate of the Alamo was for all intents sealed. Yet Smith departed Gonzales on March 6th leading another small body of reinforcements, despite knowing that without major reinforcements the Alamo was doomed. Though Smith didn't know it for another couple of days the Alamo had already fallen, the morning of his second departure from Gonzales.
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jul 17, 2011 22:41:45 GMT -5
Given what was going on at Goliad and Gonzales "lost" correspondence is to be expected. This is interesting. This could mean there is still something *out there* from that last night's correspondence from the Alamo. What if... that last courier (possibly Allen; for sure somebody) did indeed leave his packet of letters from the Alamo with Fannin to be dispersed to wherever they were going. What if... Fannin dallied with that like with everything else until it was too late. Wouldn't that mean that Urrea confiscated all correspondence and sent it on to Mexico city? Our historians have been looking for Alamo stuff down there. Maybe the key is to look for Fannin stuff. |
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Post by Rich Curilla on Jul 17, 2011 22:47:31 GMT -5
For me, Bonham's shining accomplishments tarnish a bit with our better understanding of what he delivered to Travis on March 3. I mean, that took guts too, but delivering an inspiring letter to Travis saying there were 660 men on the way to the Alamo certainly had more of a future in it than delivering the fatalistic message that no help was coming.
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Post by Kevin Young on Jul 18, 2011 10:35:55 GMT -5
I am not ready to toss Allen off the list...and as the late Wayne Cox observed Bonham may have gotten elevated because they needs a fourth guy on the Cenotaph... ;D
That said-anyone going in and out of that place was doing something special. Albert Martin I like because he was out, helped organize folks and then led them in.
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Post by ronald on Jul 18, 2011 13:10:21 GMT -5
I am pretty sure I read about it on one of the old sites. It was said that Ross Perro had bought some of the letters that mentioned it and was keeping them on wraps to protect the Alamo heros, I am pretty sure it was just one of those things that build up after being printed, Like the play in King of the Hill,
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Post by Hiram on Jul 18, 2011 15:28:16 GMT -5
Albert Martin was an alumnus of the American Literary, Scientific, and Military Academy (later known as Norwich University.) The school was founded by Alden Partridge, former superintendent of the USMA. I would be interested in seeing what curriculum Martin studied when he was there. There were two defenders who were academically trained to be soldiers; Albert Martin and Richard Lucius Stockton. Although not entirely accurate, here is an obituary for Martin which was published by the New Orleans True American...
"Among those who fell at the storming of San Antonio was Albert Martin, a native of Providence, Rhode Island and recently a citizen of this city of the firm of Martin, Coffin & Co. aged 29. Mr. Martin had a large establishment in Gonzales, about 150 miles from San Antonio where for the last year or two he had been carrying on an extensive business. He had left the fortress and returned to his residence, where he was apprized of the perilous situation in which his late comrades were placed. His determination was instantly taken. In reply to the passionate entreaties of his father, who besought him not to rush into certain destruction, he said 'This is no time for such considerations. I have passed my word to Colonel Travers, that I would return, nor can I forfeit a pledge thus given.' In pursuance of this high resolve he raised a company of sixty-two men and started on his way back. During the route, the company, apprized of the desperate situation of affairs, became diminished by desertion, to thirty-two. With this gallant band he gained the fort and the reinforcement, small as it was, revived the drooping spirits of the garrison ....Thus died Albert Martin, a not unapt illustration of New England heroism. He has left a family, and perhaps a Nation to lament his loss, and he had bequeathed to that family an example of heroic and high-minded chivalry which can never be forgotten and which is worthy of the best days of Sparta or of Rome."
Reinforcements "diminished by desertion" from sixty-two to thirty-two? That's interesting in light of the Williamson letter.
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Post by loucapitano on Jul 18, 2011 16:02:51 GMT -5
Hey guys, please fill me in.
Where were there 660 men anywhere near the Alamo on March 3rd? They certainly weren't with Houston who was out with the Indians. Gonzales could only send 32 exceptionally brave volunteers. The only other substantial force was at Goliad and it was clear to Travis they were not coming. The Matamoros expidition had less than 100 men and they were dodging Mexican patrols rather than returning to San Antonio.
And, if the 660 did exist, what happened to them? Did they comprise most of the troops Houston was able to muster?
I know this is the subject of recent scholarship, but I've seen so little corroborating evidence that I wonder if this is just another mystery in the myth that surrounds all things Alamo.
Perhaps this was covered in previous threads. I hope you Senior Members can help me out.
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