|
|
Post by bobdurham on Mar 22, 2008 17:51:51 GMT -5
Like many others, I've often looked for clues as to where the different companies of defenders were stationed in the Alamo. One of the favorites for these kinds of suppositions are the New Orleans Greys. Some have speculated that they were stationed on the roof of the Long Barracks -- mainly due to the accounts of Torres capturing the flag and the fact that the only flag sent to Mexico City was that of the New Orleans Greys. Of course, there is no definite evidence that the two flags were one and the same; there could have been several flags captured -- the only reason Santa Anna sent the N. O. Greys flag to Mexico City was because it offered proof that the Texas Revolution was being supported by the United States.
Reading Mark Lemon's book (for the umpteenth time) reminded me of something I hadn't thought about before. The 18-pounder on the southwest corner and the gunade, located in the next artillery position to the north, were both escorted to Texas by the New Orleans Greys in 1835. Therefore, it seems (to me, at least) that the obvious station for the Greys would have been on the southern third of the West Wall, supporting both guns that were brought to Texas with them. What think you all?
Bob
|
|
|
|
Post by Jim Boylston on Mar 22, 2008 18:05:20 GMT -5
Seems a reasonable assumption, Bob. Proving it might be a tad difficult though!
Jim
|
|
|
|
Post by bobdurham on Mar 22, 2008 18:09:52 GMT -5
Hi Jim,
I thought all we'd have to do is come up with a consensus of opinion. . . You mean real proof might be required??? You guys are tough!
Bob
|
|
|
|
Post by glforeman on Mar 22, 2008 22:14:40 GMT -5
You guys are way too logical. It's a reasonable approach but too much has been made about the Greys being some sort of organized military unit. They were more like a group of organized adventurers, not a disciplined military force. In Ed Miller's excellent book, NEW ORLEANS AND THE TEXAS REVOLUTION (Texas A&M Press) he clearly documents how these men were financed by a major financial syndicate and that their motivation was an empirical design, not necessarily a patriotic one. In Mark's book, he talks about the Alamo flags and surmises (correctly, I think) that the primary flag that was waving above the walls (from Travis' letter) may have been the Lone Star & Stripes. It could have been this very ensign that Torres was pulling down when he was killed. As for artillery, I think anything is possible for who was assigned to what piece on the walls. Maybe Stuart will read another page from the captured/recaptured Alamo log on April 1.
|
|
|
|
Post by stuart on Mar 23, 2008 4:53:59 GMT -5
Ah well I did mention that Captain Blake's "narrative" described the last stand of the Greys, so who knows...  As for the 18 pounder my understanding is that it was brought up by Tom Pearson's company and arrived the day after Bexar surrendered. I've also a recollection though that somebody else on another thread (Mark?) had some slightly different detail on this, but either way it wasn't the Greys unless you count Pearson's men as being a fourth company - the "third" was the Tampico Blues. The two which fought at Bexar arrived in Texas by different routes. One came overland, and the other by sea and then by way of Goliad - where they joined Grant for the final leg. Either way both companies were at Bexar long before the gun turned up. |
|
|
|
Post by marklemon on Mar 23, 2008 12:18:56 GMT -5
Ah well I did mention that Captain Blake's "narrative" described the last stand of the Greys, so who knows... As for the 18 pounder my understanding is that it was brought up by Tom Pearson's company and arrived the day after Bexar surrendered. I've also a recollection though that somebody else on another thread (Mark?) had some slightly different detail on this, but either way it wasn't the Greys unless you count Pearson's men as being a fourth company - the "third" was the Tampico Blues. The two which fought at Bexar arrived in Texas by different routes. One came overland, and the other by sea and then by way of Goliad - where they joined Grant for the final leg. Either way both companies were at Bexar long before the gun turned up. The origin and route of the 18 pounder is detailed in my book on page 36. While it did indeed begin its journey with the New Orleans Grays, it was left behind at Velasco on October 22, 1835, due to the discovery that it had no accompanying ammunition (can you imagine the accusations and recriminations whin this was discovered? "I thought you brought it...No, I thought YOU brought it!") In any event, the gunade went on the Bexar, and the 18 pounder tube was left at Velasco. According to Lindley, a force of volunteers from Bexar, under the command of Capt Baily Hardiman, accompanied by William P. Hardiman, Shadrach Cayce, George Copeland, Damacio Jimenes, of Bexar, and a Mr Johnson of the New Orleans Grays, arrived later for the gun. (According to Lindley, there may have been others in the party.) The men travelled with the piece to Dimmit's Landing, thence through Goliad and on to Bexar, arriving following the surrender of the Mexican garrison. Mark |
|
|
|
Post by Herb on Mar 23, 2008 13:15:26 GMT -5
The origin and route of the 18 pounder is detailed in my book on page 36. While it did indeed begin its journey with the New Orleans Grays, it was left behind at Velasco on October 22, 1835, due to the discovery that it had no accompanying ammunition (can you imagine the accusations and recriminations whin this was discovered? "I thought you brought it...No, I thought YOU brought it!") In any event, the gunade went on the Bexar, and the 18 pounder tube was left at Velasco. According to Lindley, a force of volunteers from Bexar, under the command of Capt Baily Hardiman, accompanied by William P. Hardiman, Shadrach Cayce, George Copeland, Damacio Jimenes, of Bexar, and a Mr Johnson of the New Orleands Grays, arrived later for the gun. (According to Lindley, there may have been others in the party.) The men travelled with the piece to Dimmit's Landing, thence through Goliad and on to Bexar, arriving following the surrender of the Mexican garrison. Mark Three (?) years ago, Lindley shared a photocopy of one of the participants accounts of moving the 18 pounder from the Gulf to Bexar. I believe Jim, and Bob Durham also read it. The only thing I can really remember is that it arrived in Bexar in December, 1835, after Cos's surrender. |
|
|
|
Post by TRK on Mar 23, 2008 19:57:15 GMT -5
Maybe Stuart will read another page from the captured/recaptured Alamo log on April 1. What, and steal the thunder from my translation of the journal of Lt. José María Torres, which I was planning on unveiling here on April 1? (Just kidding) |
|
